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I'm halfway expecting to hear "soda will fill you with thetans and you will be devoured by the Dread Lord Xenu!"

Lol, that's terrible.

I can tell you one thing that's strictly anecdotal, but peculiar enough that it might be worth consideration. I can take soda or leave it. I grew up in an aggressively no-soda household because we had NO money AT ALL for luxuries and that's exactly what soda is. My mother says she distinctly remembers weeks when she had to debate whether to buy toilet paper or milk. We went without milk.

Anyway, possibly because of this no-flavored-beverages policy, for a long time I wasn't very good about keeping myself hydrated (I didn't like to drink just plain water--if I could, I'd drink juice or something else instead.) Now, when I'm *dehydrated*, I crave *sweets*. (I also crave sweets when I'm not getting much saturated fat in my diet, but from what I can tell this may be a result of the fact that I also tend to cut back on the sodium when I'm not eating fatty food--as a result I don't feel as thirsty and don't drink as much. It can be hard to tell when there are several factors at work.) I've found that my craving for sweets basically vanishes if I drink plenty of water.

I don't like to drink ANY kind of soda out of cans or bottles any more. I have to pour it over ice, otherwise it makes me feel like I've poured glue into my mouth. I've even gotten to the point where I make juice from concentrate and add half again as much water just to thin the stuff out. Conclusion: I'm just looking for something to drink that tastes more interesting than water.

There's nothing *in* soda that you can't get somewhere else in purer form. It's like any other food: you're taking in something you need in a pleasing format. If you're worried about your health, just balance it so that you're not taking in a lot of stuff you don't need because you're not paying attention . . . if you prefer to drink soda, cut sodium and carbohydrates in the rest of your diet.

As for supposedly healthy green tea . . . when I was in New York I was drinking a lot of it and it started giving me terrible stomach pains, so I had to quit. I don't drink green tea any more, and I haven't had a twinge since. Healthy for whom, I ask?

As to the morning/evening person thing, I think there is an actual phenomenon there, but I think it is the complex interplay of *many* factors that determine when your most awake/productive time is. You just have to figure out how you react to various changes in sleep/food/exercise/stress/whatever and manage the factors so that you can get stuff done when you need to.

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As for supposedly healthy green tea . . . when I was in New York I was drinking a lot of it and it started giving me terrible stomach pains, so I had to quit. I don't drink green tea any more, and I haven't had a twinge since. Healthy for whom, I ask?

Does the same thing to me. I drink it only when I want to induce vomiting. (works like a charm!) Also, it tastes terrible. It's supposed to be good, but it's not good for me I can tell you that.

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I can tell you one thing that's strictly anecdotal, but peculiar enough that it might be worth consideration. I can take soda or leave it. I grew up in an aggressively no-soda household. . .

There's some silver lining for you Megan. I wish my family would have been too broke to indulge in soda, alcohol and cigarettes instead of having enough $ to buy it and not miss a beat. I'm not equating the three although it's the same principle- just mentioning.

There's nothing *in* soda that you can't get somewhere else in purer form. It's like any other food: you're taking in something you need in a pleasing format. If you're worried about your health, just balance it so that you're not taking in a lot of stuff you don't need because you're not paying attention . . . if you prefer to drink soda, cut sodium and carbohydrates in the rest of your diet.

In fact, people who are very strict regarding their diet often have to closely watch carb and sodium intake so I'm guessing that since people here are chugging gallons of soda every month, they'd be best just cutting them altogether rather than replacing them. This is all beside the point however. It's the fact that soda has such a high amount of sugar and acid that should concern you.

I'm relatively new to Objectivism and it's applications in everyday life so I seldom have insight that others have not already considered. However, I do know a good deal about nutrition and enough about Objectivism to evidently enlighten everyone here :P :

Soda is bad for your health- in any amount. Period. It's not a matter of opinion, it's an established fact that is no longer questioned among scientists and athletes who "do" nutrition for a living. The toll it takes on your body in the short term by way of tooth decay and a spiked glycemic index as well as long term in the form of osteoporosis and diabetes is dangerous and entirely unnecessary. If embracing reality is the hallmark of Objectivism, how can you not be convinced by the volumes of evidence compiled by scientists and athletes?

Is it that the scientists from some of the most respected institutitons on the planet don't know how to control variables and just about every world class athlete on the planet has inferior genetics to those who drink it and "are fine"?

Health is a big deal to me from some experiences I've seen people close to me go through. If you want to drink soda you certainly have the right and I too can't stand those people trying to ban soda. Just don't tell others to go ahead and indulge in their evil behavior! Be objective and learn from others to avoid the same pitfalls. I'll hop off my soapbox now and quit posting in this thread as I'm a little embarrassed I got so heated

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Soda is bad for your health- in any amount. Period.

[...]

The toll it takes on your body in the short term by way of tooth decay and a spiked glycemic index as well as long term in the form of osteoporosis and diabetes is dangerous and entirely unnecessary.

[...]

I'll hop off my soapbox now and quit posting in this thread as I'm a little embarrassed I got so heated

Before you go, what about "fake" sugar in diet sodas? I assume any side effects from acid would be the same, if the acid levels are the same, but since there is no actual sugar... I've read some about fake sugar and I didn't find anything conclusive one way or the other. Do you know something, and if so, where did you read it?
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Before you go, what about "fake" sugar in diet sodas? I assume any side effects from acid would be the same, if the acid levels are the same, but since there is no actual sugar... I've read some about fake sugar and I didn't find anything conclusive one way or the other. Do you know something, and if so, where did you read it?

The vast majority of the fake sugars are neurotoxic and I would hardly recommend them. You're frankly better off with the real stuff, for what that's worth. The only exception I'm aware of is Splenda, which is spun down from real sugar instead of being a sweet-tasting salt like the others. So yeah, fake sugars are a no-go.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned that another problem with sodas is not just the sugar-content per se, but the fact that it is delivered as high-fructose corn syrup which is flat awful for you. High-fructose corn syrup is not properly metabolized by your body and is much more likely to change your glucose sensitivity, increasing your risk of diabetes, than comparable amounts of regular sugar. Soda's about the worst thing you can drink. But I still drink the stuff. Tastes too damn good and I can't make myself drink water for some reason. I'm trying to change my habits, though. I can tell my health isn't that good. It's not a weight thing so much as me just feeling tired/crappy all the time. If I could do less than 12 oz of soda a day or even every other day I think I'll be all right.

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The only exception I'm aware of is Splenda, which is spun down from real sugar instead of being a sweet-tasting salt like the others.

Which is funny, because even though Splenda is made from sugar so it tastes like sugar, Merisant (makers of Equal, made from Aspartame) sued McNeil (makers of Splenda, made from Sucralose) for false advertising under the Lanham Act for using the phrase, "Made from sugar, so it tastes like sugar" in Splenda marketing. Merisant argued that McNeil misled customers, and demanded a share of McNeil's profits from Splenda and punitive damages. McNeil eventually settled for an undisclosed amount.

~Q

Edited by Qwertz
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Soda is bad for your health- in any amount.

That's the problem: that word "any". Why is it a problem? Because it's *not true*. You can, and do, eat horrendous poisons *every day of your life* and they never make you sick . . . because the dosage is incredibly low. You may as well say that being alive is unhealthy because it causes you to die. There is no chemical or combination of chemicals that is *bad* for you *regardless of dosage*. The converse is also true . . . no food is "healthy" regardless of context.

This is an epistemological issue here and it's very important for you to learn to understand what, exactly, *context* means. That's why Inspector wants to see the actual studies before taking your word on anything, because many, many, many studies are *incredibly* specific.

Oh, and before you envy me for growing up in a soda-free house, you may want to contemplate the fact that I'm now pushing 350 lbs. And I'm the "can take it or leave it" person!

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If you want to make a good case against sugar you should first lay down the fundamentals of what happens in the body when you eat carbohydrates. Then, knowing the basic functions, you can start looking at potential risks. As a last step you can look at studies. What exactly do the studies say, what has been measured, under what circumstances and of what relevance is it?

"In fact, people who are very strict regarding their diet often have to closely watch carb and sodium intake "

What people, more exactly? Why would they closely watch their carb and sodium intake and why should anyone else care what they do?

"It's the fact that soda has such a high amount of sugar and acid that should concern you."

Why should that concern me, and why would that apply to any amount of soda?

"Soda is bad for your health- in any amount. Period. It's not a matter of opinion, it's an established fact that is no longer questioned among scientists and athletes who "do" nutrition for a living"

Prove it.

"Is it that the scientists from some of the most respected institutitons..."

Argument from authority. This is usually the most telling sign of bullshit and pseudo-science.

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That's the problem: that word "any". Why is it a problem? Because it's *not true*. You can, and do, eat horrendous poisons *every day of your life* and they never make you sick . . .

He said "bad" (undefined term) not "sick".

So he's right saying that "any amount of [posion] is bad for you". You won't necessarily get sick from it but the body has to use additional resources to cope with it.

Poison is "bad" in any amount except if it cures directly or indirectly another disease.

The "proof" is difficult to do because the metabolisms of individual people differ. There is not a diet that is good for everybody. You can rely on some studies but in the end you have to experiment yourself (and maybe consult a doctor to check your health regularly) with your own body with what diet you feel best. My own view is that the the body's digestion and metabolism is optimized for fruits, vegetables, nuts and meat, not soda, so you *probably* will do better without soda.

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All through my growing-up years, I poured carbonated beverages down my neck as though my life depended on it. Around the age of 20, I began to make massive changes in my diet, and became the hardcore fresh juice/purified water addict that I happily am today.

A few years back, I had to dump out a half-full cup of cola somebody left in front of my building. Pouring it into the toilet, the smell coming off the stuff was so awful I had to turn my head away.

You can majorly re-orient your tastebuds, if that's what you want to do.

For you guzzlers, you can take comfort in this Onion news report:

http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news...y_of_soda_still

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You all need to read Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes. It's looking more and more like sugar/carbs, and the subsequently high insulin levels they cause, are the real culprits for many of the wide spread and common ailments in today's society. Taubes spent quite a bit of time and effort in not only writing this book, but researching the data that is already out there, and seemingly being misinterpreted and forced on us by the so-called "experts." I couldn't help but think of Rand's Establishing of an Establishment from Philosophy: Who Needs It.

An excerpt from the linked article:

As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homeostasis—the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars—sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically—are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are the most likely dietary causes of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

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Because as I said I've seen a number of articles, both scientific and journalistic and so far nothing I have seen justifies the kinds of ideas I see routinely thrown around about soda. I.e. "Soda will make you fat!" "Soda will make your kids hyper" "Soda will dissolve your teeth!" "Soda will give you the diabeetus!" "You may as well drink poison!" "Even if you're fit, soda is harming you in ways you can't perceive; you just don't know it!" I'm halfway expecting to hear "soda will fill you with thetans and you will be devoured by the Dread Lord Xenu!"

Somewhat funny story from earlier today. (By the way, Happy Independence Day! Stay productive.)

I laughed out loud when I read this paragraph. My mom, who was in the same room on the other computer at the time (and who I was alluding to in an earlier post of this thread when I quoted her stating my Pepsi drinking is "unhealthy" between puffs of her cigarettes, lol) looks over at what I was reading and asked what was so funny. I briefly explained this thread and my statement, then I read her this paragraph. Her response was, "Your stomach lining going to rot away from all the acid in that crap." She said this while smoking a cigarette. :P lol

Edited by EC
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Her response was, "Your stomach lining going to rot away from all the acid in that crap." She said this while smoking a cigarette. :P lol

The stomach is already full of hydrochloric acid--used to break down food. It can tolerate the much weaker acid in pepsi, Mountain Dew, and the like. Your lungs are not already full of smoke.

The things I'd want to look into are the sugar (as argued above) and to a much lesser extent, the various trace ingredients--it's barely possible that even in spite of all the government-mandated overkill testing, something is a slow poison with subtle effects. However such an assertion borders on the arbitrary; I'm not too worried about it.

I remember one time in college when there was a spike in the price of coffee due to a Brazilian frost, noting that soda never had that problem. Deciding it was all artificial, we concluded (jokingly) it would only be an issue if a mine caved in somewhere in Australia.

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