1984 Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Is this modern material world, there is a constant obsession to have new and nice things. The more intelligent humans become , the more they get bored and therefore have a greater demand to have more new things. But eventually we can get bored with those things aswell, and many of them becomes obsolete eventually which in turn cause us to continously go out and buy more things. Most of dream of fortune, to be able to go out and buy major purchases, such as big screen TV, sports car, etc. But eventually we would get bored with that aswell. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Capitialism and Gobalisation and greater development in technology but can those "things" ever really fill the void in our lives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowzer Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 I'm all for Capitialism and Gobalisation and greater development in technology but can those "things" ever really fill the void in our lives? A "void" in my life is not why I buy material things and I'll be damned if I ever get bored of my sportscar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwakeAndFree Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 1984 - if there is a specific void in your life, that's not a reason to assume we all go around with voids in our lives. I don't have a void in my life - but I will have if someone will steal my laptop, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_Connery Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Yes, Yes we do. I would probably not be alive without modern, material medicine. Being alive is a pre-requisite to being happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrshep Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 The more intelligent humans become , the more they get bored and therefore have a greater demand to have more new things. But eventually we can get bored with those things aswell, and many of them becomes obsolete eventually which in turn cause us to continously go out and buy more things. Most of dream of fortune, to be able to go out and buy major purchases, such as big screen TV, sports car, etc. But eventually we would get bored with that aswell. Isn't it wonderful that such is the case? Think how boring life would be to not want more and more, and not be able to pursue it. In a manner of speaking, I think that desiring more is the essence of life. Didn't Miss Rand (or one of her characters) say something like, "If you're not hungry, why sit at the table?" What you refer to doesn't mean that you are obligated to chase things which you do not truly want, but you have the option of pursuing things that you would like to pursue, things you choose, things which are continually evolving, getting better and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eetest01 Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Capitialism and Gobalisation and greater development in technology but can those "things" ever really fill the void in our lives? It seems to me you are making some unwarranted assumptions about human nature. 1. That man is in such a state as to possess a "void" by his nature. 2. That man must fill his life with objects that distract him from being conscious of the void, in other words, he must reject the reality of the human condition. Man's nature is such that he must use reason to select and pusue his goals. If he adheres to reason he will be productive and lead a fullfilling life. This is the condition which is most appropriately his natural state. You are right that can people become bored with their possessions, but this does not mean they lead dissatified lives. Things may bring momentary pleasure, but to achieve happiness one must lead a virtuous life - one in pursuit of reason and all the virtues arising from it. There is a distinction between pleasure and hapiness that you are not making in your argument. Can pursuit of material wealth bring happiness? Only if it is achieved rationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Is this modern material world, there is a constant obsession to have new and nice things. Obsession? New things are interesting and exciting. Nice things are ... nice. The more intelligent humans become, the more they get bored and therefore have a greater demand to have more new things. But eventually we can get bored with those things aswell, and many of them becomes obsolete eventually which in turn cause us to continously go out and buy more things. I'm extremely intelligent and my life is way too full of interesting things to ever be bored. In fact, a little boredom might be an interesting change of pace if I could ever manage to arrange it. Most of dream of fortune, to be able to go out and buy major purchases, such as big screen TV, sports car, etc. But eventually we would get bored with that as well. I don't just dream. I started with nothing, but I've worked hard and I've worked smart. As a result I have earned all the things I have wanted the most -- and I enjoy them tremendously. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Capitialism and Gobalisation and greater development in technology but can those "things" ever really fill the void in our lives? What void? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
source Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 I don't have a void in my life - but I will have if someone will steal my laptop, for example. Which reminds me of how my old laptop broke down. The plasma in the screen cracked somehow. And it became useless. The new screen was way too expensive (as expensive as a new laptop), and I didn't have any money anyway. My life is so empty without it. I can't even study any more. I tried to "fill the void" by reading books and learning everything I could about computers, but it's just not the same (figures). Oh yes, there are other computers around. But they are not my computers. I can't use them all the time, I can't mess with their settings until windows become unrecognizable, I can't install apache and php and mysql and visual studio and hex editor and ethereal packet tracker and all the other goodies I had, because that would all take too much disk space for the other person(s) who use the computer. I also can't study using someone else's computer, because I can't bring those in the peace and quiet of my room. I only get so much time as to come to the forum once in a while and post a few messages. Now, however, I'm going to buy a new laptop. And when I install all the beforementioned goodies on it, there will be no more void. Don't get me wrong, though. I have things to do, only it's much much harder without something so valuable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 In fact, a little boredom might be an interesting change of pace if I could ever manage to arrange it. LOL I think THAT's the void in my life: I'm incapable of boredom! Even when the conditions are there, my mind keeps on spinning, thinking about interesting things. It simply refuses to be bored. Not that I mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areactor Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 LOL I think THAT's the void in my life: I'm incapable of boredom! Even when the conditions are there, my mind keeps on spinning, thinking about interesting things. It simply refuses to be bored. Not that I mind... This is the exact reason why I'm an aspiring writer/director, I would love to spend my life seeing my thoughts on paper and imitated on the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Robinson Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 One thing many poeple forget about some capitalists (JD Rockefeller, A Carnegie) is that these men were indeed great creators and deserved every penny of their millions, but THEY didn't feel they deserved it (later in his life JDR turned to socialism.) Rand talks about mystics of muscle, people who although they do hold their own economically still believe in a mind-body dichotomy. Happiness comes from achieving values. It is a product of being productive within your nature. Mystics of muscle's sole goal in life is $, but to a preson who does not accpet this dichotomy the goal is happiness (Aristotle), to be fufilled in the perpetuating of their humaness. Money is a result of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Story Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Is this modern material world, there is a constant obsession to have new and nice things. The more intelligent humans become , the more they get bored and therefore have a greater demand to have more new things. But eventually we can get bored with those things aswell, and many of them becomes obsolete eventually which in turn cause us to continously go out and buy more things. Most of dream of fortune, to be able to go out and buy major purchases, such as big screen TV, sports car, etc. But eventually we would get bored with that aswell. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Capitialism and Gobalisation and greater development in technology but can those "things" ever really fill the void in our lives? There seems to be some suggestion here that life is about having or accumulating things. I always thought that life is not about having but about doing. Maybe I'm wrong, as I usually am. I don't believe in God or religion, but King Solomon comes to mind. He had everything that money could buy and he said "All is vanity and vexation of the spirit." That's probably fiction, but a real case is the "poor rich girl" who at an early age inherited billions from her uncle and never had to work ever in her life. She was unhappy all her life. I figure the reason why is that life is not about having, but about doing. These people had the means of living a life, but didn't know what to do and therefore didn't have a life. Granted one must HAVE some things in order to DO things: health, energy, education, tools, materials, etc., etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RationalBiker Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 That's probably fiction, but a real case is the "poor rich girl" who at an early age inherited billions from her uncle and never had to work ever in her life. She was unhappy all her life. I figure the reason why is that life is not about having, but about doing. These people had the means of living a life, but didn't know what to do and therefore didn't have a life. I think "having a life" is about having a solid moral and ethical code based on the facts of reality. The will most likely result in not just doing things, but in doing things with purpose, that purpose being making one's life better and more fulfilling. Essentially it means being productive, which is more than simply doing. How they are productive may vary based on their needs and desires and can easily include accumulating stuff. The opposite of the poor rich girl can also be true. You can have a person who works hard everyday and has nothing to show for it be equally frustrated and disenchanted with life. VES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Do we need material possessions? Of course! Material possessions are good! Has anyone noticed that 1984 hasn't followed up his or her post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RationalBiker Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Has anyone noticed that 1984 hasn't followed up his or her post? He had 5 posts on four different topics in one day. I think his tenure here was like a missile, fire and forget. VES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidV Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 I wonder what “void” 1984’s computer, electricity, clothes, food, and shelter are filling? Oh yes, the practical requirements of human life in an industrial society. :-) Of course, there are people who collect material possessions and/or other people fill a void – the void being self-esteem and sense of accomplishment. In such cases, the problem is not material possession as such, but unearned guilt and a poor choice of values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreathofLife Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 I'm too lazy to read all of the replies so I'm just going to say this: Material possessions will not fill any void in yourself. The only reason for buying a material possession is because of the value it gives to you, a rational value because that thing will serve a purpose to you. Example: I buy a nice desk because I need a work surface and a place for my computer and I want it to look nice because I enjoy nice things. No void filling. The moment it becomes an escape is when you begin to buy things not because they have a value to you but because you can say to people "this is mine" and you try to suck some sort of admiration or prestige from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 He had 5 posts on four different topics in one day. I think his tenure here was like a missile, fire and forget. VES I'm always suspicious when someone makes a controversial post and doesn't follow it up. Quite a few of the Objectivists here should read J.R.R. Tolkien and learn to spot a troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Mechanic Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Quite a few of the Objectivists here should read J.R.R. Tolkien and learn to spot a troll. That was the most supremely awesomest thing to say ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 That was the most supremely awesomest thing to say ever. Thank you very much. (I love that emoticon). It drives me up the wall when someone comes to troll and objectivists insist on point-by-point refutations the length of LOTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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