NFL 2008

[D'kian]

While we wait for these looooooooooooooooooong two weeks to be finally over, here's some compeltely useless trivia and coincidences:

Pittsburgh last won a Superbowl at Arizona, this year they play Arizona.

No Superbowl has ever gone into overtime, though several have come close.

Pittsburgh is well on its way of setting all the NFL youth records. Roethlisberger is the youngest QB to ever win the Superbowl, Tomlin is the youngest head coah to reach one.

No team has ever played a Superbowl at its home field. Closest one was Safn Francisco, which played one at Stanford's stadium. This is somewhat remarkable given how many times the Dolphins went to the Superbowl and how many were played in the Orange Bowl.

The team with most Superbowl appearances is Dallas (who?) with 8, of which they've won 5. This is Pittsburgh's 7th and, if they win, would make them the first team to win six.

These days teams celebrate a big win by dumping a large container of Gatorade on the head coach. In years past the players carried the coah off the field on their shoulders. I can't help but think were missing something.

The Steelers could have given the head coach position to Ken Wisenhunt. However there's a league rule that at least one minority candidate must be interviewed for the position. I think the Steelers took Tomlin over Wisenhunt because the former was a defensive coordinator and the latter an offensive one. Pittsburgh traditionally has had the best defense it can put together.

Should the Cardinals win (perish the thought) and then go on to more Superbowls, they'de be the least likely team ever to establish a dyansty in the NFL (actually the least likely would be Detroit or the Saints, but they haven't come even close since the Merger)

Sometime after the Superbowl the Pro-Bowl will be played in Hawai. Perhaps some people will even watch it (I confess: I try to catch the first half just to see who's playing)

Lastly let's recap all of the Cardinals great moments over the past thirty years: <crickets chirping> (Oh, but that's such a cheap shot! Actually I'm glad for the Cardinals, and I wish them the very best on next year's Superbowl if they don't play the Steelers.)

[D'kian]

Pittsburgh last won a Superbowl at Arizona, this year they play Arizona.

I get to correct this before someone calls me on it...

Pittsburgh last lost a Superbowl in Arizona.

The last it won was in Detroit, Betis' triumphal home-coming and all that.

[K-Mac]

Arizona has a professional football team?

[D'kian]

Arizona has a professional football team?

I think reaching a Superbowl entitles the Cardinals to at least a bare minnimum of respect (on the other hand, it didn't work for the Atlanta Falcons).

But yes, they're named "Arizona Cardinals," not "Phoenix Cardinals."

[D'kian]

Steelers Won!

Man, that was as ugly as victories get, but it was a victory.

As for records:

Longest interception return for a touchdown.

Youngest coach ever to win the Super Bowl

First team to win six Super Bowls.

That'll do for now. More later.

[Thales]

Steelers Won!

Man, that was as ugly as victories get, but it was a victory.

As for records:

Longest interception return for a touchdown.

Youngest coach ever to win the Super Bowl

First team to win six Super Bowls.

That'll do for now. More later.

I thought the Cards were going to win it. A real up and down game. A good game.

[Rearden_Steel]

I can't believe they did not review that last play! It's the Super bowl, under 30 seconds, on the Steelers 39 yard line and they just decided to call it a game. What the hell? As a fan from Seattle all I can say is congratulations Steelers the refs gave you another one.

[D'kian]

I thought the Cards were going to win it. A real up and down game. A good game.

I never doubted the Steelers would win. Right after the safety my brother in law called to see if I wanted to call off our bet (we bet a meal at a fancy steakhouse). Aside from the fact I honor all my bets, I'd never pull out of a bet I was sure to win (that's why I always honor them: I seldom loose).

Anyway, the Steelers started out well enough. They dominated the first quarter, and Tomlin finally understood they don't do well on fourth and short. The Steel Curtain kept the Cards down, and that interception at the close of the half was simply amazing.

In the third quarter the Steelers did rather badly. Had they scored more than a field goal they'd have secured the game earlier on. The offensive line really needs to get fixed.

And on the fourth the Cardinals finally wore the defense down. Pittsburgh allowed two long touchdown drives. Meanwhile the Steelers offense again could not score and, almost fatally, committed a penalty that caused a safety. Fortunately Arizona scored to take the lead too soon, allowing Roethlisberger and his offense to do what they do best: play desperately to try to win in a 2 minute drill.

The Cardinals played well, but they also committed too many penalties, a lot of them stupid (like running into the holder after the kick). And for all the hype about their improved, post-season defense, they just weren't good enough against a merely adequate Steeler attack. Coach Wisenhunt needs to get himself a better defensive coordinator.

As I said, the victory was ugly. It made for an exciting finish (for a little while it looked the game would head into overtime), but it was wholly unnecessary. Coach Tomlin needs to get himself a better offensive coordinator.

Speaking of Tomlin, I think his performance this season should quiet any doubts about him. He had a very tough schedule, a problematic offense, and he won the Super Bowl. He's in a prime position to repeat Chuck Noll's feat and win multiple championships, something Cowher never managed to do. (of course he has most of the team Cowher built).

The Cardinals may also be standing at the threshold of a dynasty. Wisenhunt is as good as a coach can be, and Warner may still have a year or two left. Provided they don't play the Steelers in a Super Bowl again, I would like to see Kurt Warner be the first QB to win championships for two different teams.

[D'kian]

I can't believe they did not review that last play!

Actually the last play was Roethlisberger taking a knee to the ground.

It's the Super bowl, under 30 seconds, on the Steelers 39 yard line and they just decided to call it a game.

No, as there was one last play. They called it a fumble

What the hell? As a fan from Seattle all I can say is congratulations Steelers the refs gave you another one.

I agree the fumble should have been reviewed. As I understand the rules it would have stood as called. Rationally it was a fumble, as Warner's arm started moving forward after Woodley grabbed it. He couldn't possibly have expected to throw any kind of pass with 300 lbs of defensive player tugging on his arm.

BTW, blaming the referees is the perennial lament of the sore looser. Blame the Cardinals for not stopping Pittsburgh's last offense, and for not getting into the game until the 4th quarter. And blame Seattle for horribly mismanaging the clock twice in one game. And blame the Patriots for not sacking Manning one crucial time.

[utabintarbo]

I think that if the Cardinal defense had held up for the last 2 minutes, Warner would have been the MVP (I kinda thought that he had an outside chance even in the loss). Do you think this ensures a trip to Canton for him. For the record, I do.

[D'kian]

I think that if the Cardinal defense had held up for the last 2 minutes, Warner would have been the MVP (I kinda thought that he had an outside chance even in the loss). Do you think this ensures a trip to Canton for him. For the record, I do.

From time to time a player on the loosing team is awarded the MVP trophy. I thought Warner could have gotten it this time, but I didn't expect him to. As for the Hall of Fame, he deserves it. He now owns the record for most yards thrown in various Super Bowls, which previously was owned by Joe Montana. The difference being Montana played in 4 and Warner in 3. He has also been instrumental in turning a loosing team around twice now. That's a very big deal.

[Rearden_Steel]

Actually the last play was Roethlisberger taking a knee to the ground.

No, as there was one last play. They called it a fumble

I agree the fumble should have been reviewed. As I understand the rules it would have stood as called. Rationally it was a fumble, as Warner's arm started moving forward after Woodley grabbed it. He couldn't possibly have expected to throw any kind of pass with 300 lbs of defensive player tugging on his arm.

BTW, blaming the referees is the perennial lament of the sore looser. Blame the Cardinals for not stopping Pittsburgh's last offense, and for not getting into the game until the 4th quarter. And blame Seattle for horribly mismanaging the clock twice in one game. And blame the Patriots for not sacking Manning one crucial time.

Your absolutely right my last comment was meant in jest, however I realize it did not come off that way. I still think not reviewing Arizona’s last play was ridiculous. Apparently I’m not the only one.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/118743-...ll_results#poll

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-50/...ter-ending.html

[D'kian]

Your absolutely right my last comment was meant in jest, however I realize it did not come off that way. I still think not reviewing Arizona’s last play was ridiculous. Apparently I’m not the only one.

As I recall, the decision to revies in the last 2 minutes of each half is amde by an official in a booth off-filed (ergo booth review). You'd think they'd review any play that was even slightly controversial, if only to stave off more cotroversy. So, I agree it shoudl have been reviewed. But if it had been it either would have stood or, had it been reversed, would have left the Cards with 5 seconds for a hail mary play against the League's best defense, and one in a highly motivated state. Chances are it wouldn't ahve affected the result.

As to Santonio's penalty, I'm less clear. I don't know where the rules stand now. The rule about celebrations has changed a lot (once it was called taunting). I seem to recall it makes a difference if it's done on the field as opposed to doing it off the field, but I'm not sure. I suppose the officials saw it and dind't consider it a penalty. I'll tell you one thing, I'd love to hear an explanation by the League's officials.

[Thales]

As I recall, the decision to revies in the last 2 minutes of each half is amde by an official in a booth off-filed (ergo booth review). You'd think they'd review any play that was even slightly controversial, if only to stave off more cotroversy. So, I agree it shoudl have been reviewed. But if it had been it either would have stood or, had it been reversed, would have left the Cards with 5 seconds for a hail mary play against the League's best defense, and one in a highly motivated state. Chances are it wouldn't ahve affected the result.

As to Santonio's penalty, I'm less clear. I don't know where the rules stand now. The rule about celebrations has changed a lot (once it was called taunting). I seem to recall it makes a difference if it's done on the field as opposed to doing it off the field, but I'm not sure. I suppose the officials saw it and dind't consider it a penalty. I'll tell you one thing, I'd love to hear an explanation by the League's officials.

The Steelers won the game fair and square, but it's also true that the Cardinals' offense was able to move the ball against the Steelers' defense very effectively. The problem for the Cardinals was their defense against the Steelers' offense.

At the end of the day, the game could have gone either way. I really enjoyed it.

[D'kian]

The Steelers won the game fair and square, but it's also true that the Cardinals' offense was able to move the ball against the Steelers' defense very effectively. The problem for the Cardinals was their defense against the Steelers' offense.

Not that effectively, at least not until the 4th quarter (some in the 2nd, but that ended with an interception).

Besides in the 2 minute drill the defense covers every receiver and lets the QB relatively unpressured. In particualr receivers are covered in the sidelines and the end zone. That's why during such lpay there are ltos of completed passes near the center of the field, but few elsewhere. Had Arizona been granted another play, chances are it would have been an incomplete or intercepted pass, or a completion down the middle stopped soon after.

If they'd had another timeout, or 30 more seconds, I'd have worried. That allows the opposing team to get close and make a goal-line play, or even a long run. As it was, the Steelers won when Holmes made his spectacular catch in the end zone.

[D'kian]

I can't believe they did not review that last play!

It turns out they did review the play!

I saw this on NFL Replay on NFL Network. The outgoing head of NFL officials explained thus:

During the last 2 minutes an official upstairs watches the replay and decides whether the call was good. If he's unsure, then he isntructs the referee to review the play. In this instance the booth official decided it was the right call, so it was unnecessary to ahve the ref review it.

Having said all that, I wtill think the referee should ahve gone to the replay station and reviewed the play, or he should have anounced the upstairs official deemed the play not worthy of review. Why? In order to make the process completely transparent to the fans. I mean, it's days after the Super Bowl and I'm just finding out what happened.

[Thales]

It turns out they did review the play!

Yes, I remember them doing it. If you watched the announcers on CBS (?), they mentioned it.

[K-Mac]

I'm confused too...they said right during the broadcast that the booth reviewed it. Perhaps you'd had too much beer by then?

[D'kian]

The Pro Bowl has come and gone (mostly gone) and now officially the drought begins anew.

I thought some more about the Leaguer's notion of holding the Pro Bowl the week before the Super Bowl. It still makes no sense. The idea is to get more people to see the game. Fair enough. But instead of changing the game's date, the League ought to try something else first:

Promote it. The NFL Network (owned by the NFL) devotes more air time in their regular lineup to any of Detroit's snoozers than tot he Pro Bowl. All of last week shows line NFL Total Access spoke only about the Super Bowl or the coaching changes in various teams. If they said the words "Pro Bowl" it was in phrases such as, "...and retaining the services of Brett Favre, who has [number] of Pro Bowl appearances."

More significantly, there was no edition of NFL Gameday last Sunday. No kind of analysis, no previews. There was a short segment in Access in the morning, and that was it.

And this from the League's own network.

It goes further, too. I've never seena single show about the Pro Bowl by NFL Films. Not one. There are many fine films about Super Bowls, Football Follies, various teams, players, coaches, etc.But noe about the Pro Bowl, not even a history of the game itself.

Another thing the League can do is up the stakes. Winning players get some money, the loosing side gets half of what the winers get. I suppose the coaches and staff get something, too. And of course there's the paid vacation in Hawaii (next year Miami). What do the team owners get? If only the revenue from the game, that's paltry indeed.

There ought to be a bigger payoff. One idea: a 10% increase in the salary cap for the winning conference. With an additional 1% bonus to the teams that provide the MVP. That might make the players take the game more seriously and thus play ti better.

But first they should promote the game more.

Now very little will happen until the draft. The big off-season story may be whether Kurt Warner retires or not. Lesser stories will include some of the coaching changes, plus off season trades. See you next fall.

[utabintarbo]

The Pro Bowl has come and gone (mostly gone) and now officially the drought begins anew.

:(

Now very little will happen until the draft. The big off-season story may be whether Kurt Warner retires or not. Lesser stories will include some of the coaching changes, plus off season trades. See you next fall.

I hear Mike Martz is being considered for Arizona's vacated Offensive Coordinator position. This may delay Warner's retirement.

I also hear Larry Fitzgerald is willing to restructure his contract to ensure Boldin's return. This would probably allow them to concentrate on their defense in the draft, and give them the best chance of repeating this season's success (despite Vegas' odds-makers' skepticism).

D'kian, I think you should start the "NFL 2009" thread now.

[D'kian]

I hear Mike Martz is being considered for Arizona's vacated Offensive Coordinator position. This may delay Warner's retirement.

I hope so. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Cards could be the team to beat next season.

I also hear Larry Fitzgerald is willing to restructure his contract to ensure Boldin's return. This would probably allow them to concentrate on their defense in the draft, and give them the best chance of repeating this season's success (despite Vegas' odds-makers' skepticism).

How large a space would Boldin leave on the salary cap if he leaves? Arizona is not hurting for offensive talent, not even in the receiver positions. They did well enough against the Steelers with Bolding and Fitzgerald almost neutralized. I'd concentrate on beefing up the defense.

D'kian, I think you should start the "NFL 2009" thread now.

I don't think so. It would run dry in a month at most and then I'd have to dig it up come September. I'd rather just start it then (I'm also thinking of naming it "Steelers 2009")

[utabintarbo]

I hope so. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Cards could be the team to beat next season.

Counting out the Lions already, eh?

How large a space would Boldin leave on the salary cap if he leaves? Arizona is not hurting for offensive talent, not even in the receiver positions. They did well enough against the Steelers with Bolding and Fitzgerald almost neutralized. I'd concentrate on beefing up the defense.

I don't think it's so much about the salary cap if he leaves. He was really cheap this year, and now he's looking to get PAID. Can't blame him for that.

If they lose Boldin, that would take away a huge chunk of yards, and detract quite a bit from their 3 receiver set. Remember, he has gone over 1000 yds./season for 4 out of the 6 seasons he has been in the league. Having the 3 great receivers (with Breaston) together out there opens up the running game as well. They have a pretty good offensive formula right now. You don't want to mess with it too much, IMO.

I don't think so. It would run dry in a month at most and then I'd have to dig it up come September. I'd rather just start it then (I'm also thinking of naming it "Steelers 2009")

I don't care. I want more Football!!!

[D'kian]

Counting out the Lions already, eh?

The team to beat is the team everyone wants to beat (for position, for bragging rights, etc), not the team everyone and his grandmother are sure to beat.

The Lions can do worse, but if they do no one will notice. They can't loose more than 16 games, no, but they can loose by more points, give up more yards, have mroe turnovers, etc. But those stats pale before 0-16. People are also unlikely to remember the Lions for loosing 32 straight games, nor do I think it will get that far.

I don't think it's so much about the salary cap if he leaves. He was really cheap this year, and now he's looking to get PAID. Can't blame him for that.

Not at all. But he may get a better deal as a free agent.

If they lose Boldin, that would take away a huge chunk of yards, and detract quite a bit from their 3 receiver set. Remember, he has gone over 1000 yds./season for 4 out of the 6 seasons he has been in the league. Having the 3 great receivers (with Breaston) together out there opens up the running game as well. They have a pretty good offensive formula right now. You don't want to mess with it too much, IMO.

With a merely adequate QB such as Roethlisberger, any team will do well enough with two good receivers. Having a good QB such as Warner, they don't even need that many.

Their offense is very good. They did very well against the Leagu'es best defense, after all, even if not quite enough. BUt the absence of Boldin won't hurt them too much. Overall I think I'd rather have a good defense than the best offense.

I don't care. I want more Football!!!

Well, I could open a thread about Football oddities and patterns. I've an idea that when a team goes to the Super Bowl for the first time against a team that has already been there, the odds favor the veteran team.

[D'kian]

I forgot to mention that if you want mroe Football, you should get NFL Network.

It has lots of great shows year-round, mostly stuff from NFL Films, but also series like "Top Ten" (top ten LB corps, Football Families, Things That Changed The Game, etc), "America's Game" (featuring one team's season; this year I expect the 07 Steelers), "The Missing Rings" (teams that should have won Super Bowls but didn't), Replays of old Super Bowls And NFL Total Access year-round.

It's not the next best thing to having the season take place, but it's the only thing when there isn't active Football.

[D'kian]

So Brett Favre <yawn> retires <yawn> again <yawn>

Pardon me while I yawn.

That's better.

Makes me wonder whether the boy who cried wolf™ really cried wolf so often. Not that I think Favre sin't serious this time. Not at all. He says his throwing shoulder has given all it can, and he's no longer fit to play. Fair enough. Better to leave now than after having a horrible season or two.

But we've been this way before. Truth is most people outside New York won't care much one way or another. And even the Jets might eb asking whther they were better off this season than last season.

The fact is a star player won't make much of a difference. A star coach might, but not a star player. If you want to win championships what you need is a good team, not one great player regardless of position. Check this list of great QBs and how their teams did:

Dan Marino, reached one Super Bowl and lost.

John Elway, reached four Super Bowls and won two

Kurt Warner, reached three Super Bowls with two teams and won only one (thus far)

Brett Favre, reached two Super Bowls and won only one.

Tom Brady played in four Super Bowls and won three

Joe Montana, reahced four Super Bowls and won them all

Jim Kelly reached four Super Bowls and lost them all

Winning a single Super Bowl, mind, is a great achievement. Competition is fierce and Football is a tough sport. But as you can see from this list the really great QBs don't win that often or that many. Except for Monatana, but then he had a great team (the 1980s 49ers are perhaps the best NFL team ever), and Tom Brady. But Brady's team is so good it went 11-5 without him, even if they didn't make the playoffs. BTW I ommited Troy Aikman because I can't find out how many Super Bowls he played. he won three.

But contrast with this list:

Terry Bradshaw, reahced four Super Bowls and won them all

Ben Roethlisberger, reached two Super Bowls and won them all (the first one in spite of himself)

Bob Griese reached three Super Bowls and won two

Both these Steeler QBs are perfectly good players, but not stars in any way, shape or form. Griese was better than either of them, but one little known fact of his life is that he missed most of Miami's fabled 1972 undefeated season (he did win the NFC championship and Super Bowl, however). All three of them are not as good as any QB in the previous list.

They won because they had better teams. Bradshaw enjoyed the services of two 1,000 yard running backs, plus Swan and Stallworth (their legendary catches, sometimes, stemmed from Bradshwaw's poor aim). Griese had Larry Cosnka at RB, and he was a good enough passer. Both hat top-notch head coaches, too, Chuck Noll and Don Shula. Montana had a smilarly good team, including coach Bill Walsh. Oh, both Bradshaw and Griese had great deffenses (the Steel Curtaina nd the No-Name Defense). San Francisco's wasn't bad, and they had Ronnie Lott.

Point is the Jets may have done better with Favre, but not well enough. And no single player will change that. Some of the game's best players have been wasted on hopeless teams. O. J. Simpson at Buffalo comes to mind. And while I wouldn't call the Marino era Dolphins hopeless, coach Shula and the team's organization were clearly in decline then.