strawberrybird Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I apologize in advance for the length of this post. A friend posed this scenario and asked my advice: A woman is married. Her husband, who she thought was rational when she married him, has acted irrationally and based many of his decisions solely on tradition. He routinely recognizes the value of her arguments and agrees that her logic is sound but still does not act on it. She is finding it difficult to relate to him, but she still loves him. She meets another man. This man is always there for her emotionally. Objectivism is new to him and he does not follow its precepts to the letter, but he is always logical and acts honorably. She falls in love with him. She tells her husband she is in love with another man. He does not want her to have these feelings, but he acknowledges that there is nothing he can do about it and only tells her that he doesn't want her to spend time with this person anymore. She wants to stay married and she sees the reason in her husband's request, but finds it difficult to stay away from this man. One day, she has an affair. In this moment, she does not think, she just reacts physically. Later, she knows it is wrong, not because she had sex with another man (she believes that her love for him justifies her actions), but because she knows her husband does not approve and she went against his explicit wishes. She doesn't want to leave her husband for numerous reasons, but she knows that ethically she should tell him what happened. Complicating the issue is that she wants to continue her relationship with this other man. I've told her that she should act based on the consequences, but if she decides that keeping her secret is the best because otherwise it will spell the end of her marriage, is she then acting unethically? I've read most of Ayn Rand's works (fiction and nonfiction), but I'm still very much a novice objectivist and have not had any formal philosophy training. I feel my advice is woefully inadequate. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01503 Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I'm not sure if this is a parallel to Rand's affair with Nathaniel Branden. Either way, I don't believe that it is justified; I don't believe that lying is justified unless it saves your life or another's (ie, if a known killer asks you where your friend is, so that he can go and kill them). If she loved that man, she should have left her husband for him. What she did is, as I see it, an indecision. I don't believe it's fair to either of the men, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 She should check her premises. If she honestly believed in her marriage, if she honestly thought her husband was worth obeying, if she honestly loved the other man she would not have any of these problems. She needs to apply the reason she says she accepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 She wants to stay married ... She doesn't want to leave her husband for numerous reasons, ...Her reasons for wanting to married are the crucial element. Without knowing the details, the obvious question is: why doesn't she end a loveless marriage in the face of a relationship she finds fulfilling? I think that's the crucial question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadkat Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 I echo what others have said. First of all, she must not evade the reality of what she did. She must tell her husband and leave it up to him whether HE wants the marriage to continue based on that. Secondly, why does she not leave to be with the other man? I think she should have left her husband first, before she ever got into any situations with that other man. The chance that she will end up losing both is a risk she must assume. She is disrespecting her husband by denying him his right to choose based on the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberrybird Posted September 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Her reasons for wanting to married are the crucial element. Without knowing the details, the obvious question is: why doesn't she end a loveless marriage in the face of a relationship she finds fulfilling? I think that's the crucial question. She loves her husband, or so she says. Although the argument could potential be made that if she truly loved him, she wouldn't have had an affair. Nevertheless, this poses a side question. Can a woman love more than one man? What does love mean? I believe Rand wrote on this, but I can't recall what she said. Does this influence anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletch Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 One day, she has an affair.Then she made her choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RationalBiker Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) She loves her husband, or so she says. Do you listen to what a person says or do you watch what they do? The truth is usually in their actions not their words. She 'says' she loves him, but she acts against that love, explicitly so, in not holding her vows to him, acting against his wishes, and now in contemplating deception. She can't say that she follows reason while evading a major contradiction between her words and actions. Edited September 20, 2008 by RationalBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadmonson Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) Philosophers haven't had the best of luck with long term relationships have they??? I'd like to be logical here and add that I think that it is unfair to compare a new, exciting, taboo fantasy relationship to one you've been in for years(?) where there are bills to pay, and a house to run. That is a ridiculous comparison in my opinion. Edited September 21, 2008 by dadmonson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadkat Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 Philosophers haven't had the best of luck with long term relationships have they??? I'd like to be logical here and add that I think that it is unfair to compare a new, exciting, taboo fantasy relationship to one you've been in for years(?) where there are bills to pay, and a house to run. That is a ridiculous comparison in my opinion. I agree, and I think people need to take that into account when they're in situations like that. If you have an affair you have do it being completely willing to lose that tenured relationship, with all its attendant security, completely and without any input from you. Considerations like that take a lot of the shiny off of that hot guy you always game with and see at the cons, or whatever temptation happens to fall your way (yes, I understand that mad geek fantasies will not do it for everyone here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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