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Explaining Capitalism

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Devils_Advocate
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There is a youtube user who is pretty much the Chairman of the Youtube Communist Party, with whom I am trying to explain what Capitalism really is. I PMed him, asking him if he understood what it is. Here's his response:

Alright, go ahead, tell me your definition of capitalism. I'll start off by telling you what I think capitalism is, ok?

Capitalism is dog-eat-dog greed. There are no rules, there is no mercy. There is only war. Figurative war, as is found in corporate competition on Wall St and literal war as is seen in the Gulf Wars. If you don't have the stomach/guts/ambition to push, kick, or kill everyone else around you, then you will either be killed or left behind to rot. Doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, or child. Doesn't matter if you are young, old, black, or white. If you are in 'MY" way, or if you have the nerve to challenge me, I will kill you and everyone else around you in an orgy of collateral damage. Capitalism is the African Savannah on a cocktail of speed, meth, crack, and vicodin.

I choose not ....

Scary, how people perceive the system of Liberty.

I wanted to awnser with this, but also didn't want to screw up. Can you critique my reply before I send it off?

If this were capitalism, I assure you, civilization would not still be standing.

First - I'll define capitalism, and then analyze your definition.

Capitalism is a system of government and society, whereby the government exists to protect individuals from the initiation of force, and where all relationships are voluntary and dictated according to the rational judgment of the minds of the individuals in question. It is based on the premise of human rights - the right to live, the right to be free from the dictates of others, the right to create and keep your creation (you made it, why shouldn't it be yours?), and the right to choose for yourself, with your own rational mind, what is in your best self interest.

You claimed that capitalism is a dog-eat-dog greed system. There are two main problems with this: first, dog-eat-dog greed is a contradiction in terms. In order for a dog to eat another dog, he must ask that other dog to sacrifice himself. Sacrifice is anti-greed. This leads to the second problem - a dog eat dog situation could never arise in a capitalist system. This can only happen in a society of cannibals, where the interests of one are at the expense of another. In a Capitalist society where the majority of individuals followed reason and logic, one's interest could never be at the expense of another. In a Capitalist society where this was not the case, the individual whose interests were at the expense of another would not be allowed to force his will or cooperation on the other individual. If the other individual follows reason, he will see the conflict and avoid the man. If he does not, it is through his own error. No one else should take his fall.

Actually, that seems to have been the whole of your post. I'll just explain further then, that no one who did not want to get involved in wall street would suffer. They may not succeed as much, but they would not suffer. If they don't want to compete in the free market, they need not. It is their choice. If you do, no one has the right to push your or kick you and especially not to kill you. If you run your business well and profit, how is that at the expense of other men? It isn't. You succeeded with your own ingenuity, ability, organization and management skills, and you CREATED that money. If you fail, it is because you made errors in your judgment. In that case, it is sad, but you cannot expect to keep your industry running if you run it badly. It will fail because no one will want your products or services. Therefore, you aren't making a profit. Therefore, you can't run your business. The key is to make your business better.

I hope this has given you some clarification as to what Capitalism means. For further understanding, I recommend the works of Ayn Rand, especially this youtube audio recording of an essay by her. It's called "What is Capitalism?" (this is part one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI6KY6TL50c

Edited by Devils_Advocate
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Don't waste your time.

YouTube is where morons, retards, and all breeds of dumbass go to waste time.

Do yourself a favor, tell him that you're not willing to discuss politics/economics with him because nothing good can come out of arguing with a strongheaded moron, similar to how politely asking my homework to do itself won't work. Futility.

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D_A I liked your response but unfortunately looking at your opponents opening tirade it is quite obvious that the guy not going to accept rational arguments or contrary positions.

His diatribe offers no facts. If you offer them they will be rejected, without consideration, without reason and without thought.

He doesn't want to debate you he wants to yell slogans at you.

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Keep the answer short and get down to the principles.

Capitalism is the recognition of individual rights.

The current system is not Capitalism but a mixed system between Capitalism and Socialism because individual rights are not fully recognized.

For example wars are paid by taxation, not by voluntary donations.

Edited by Clawg
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There is a youtube user who is pretty much the Chairman of the Youtube Communist Party,

Give up. Progress is not made by trying to pry barnacles from their niches.

You make progress by convincing people who are near your position of your rationality. Then when you have enough of those convinced, it doesn't matter what this pinhead thinks.

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Devil's Advocate - this is actually of personal interest to me as well because I have a good friend who is an admitted socialist (although I truly believe he is a capitalist deep down, lost in a sea of altruism) and he too keeps using this "dog eat dog" phrase to refer to the way I debate things should be. So, I found your original response to be a good way of debating back with my friend.

Edited by KevinDW78
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Devil's Advocate - this is actually of personal interest to me as well because I have a good friend who is an admitted socialist (although I truly believe he is a capitalist deep down, lost in a sea of altruism) and he too keeps using this "dog eat dog" phrase to refer to the way I debate things should be. So, I found your original response to be a good way of debating back with my friend.

Glad to hear I could help. Most of my friends are similar. I have a friend who has a great Sense of Life - one of the most vibrant people I've ever met - but she has made a lot of epistemological errors. Her epistemology does, luckily, work up into her political views. So If I can just convince her that man is not a collective animal who needs a higher power to worship, I can convince her of individualism. The funny thing is that she may be very well organized and systematic in her views, and may spout them, but she doesn't live them. And like I said earlier, her sense of life is VERY against her epistemological ideas. It's sad, though, to see what the public schools do to people.

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My friend is also similiar. In a recent discussion I got all his wacky commie arguments to boil down to one thing - he says compromise is a part of nature. When I asked him where in nature?, he said, "EVERYWHERE!" then he tried to play the game of demanding that I prove where in nature compormise does NOT exist (we all know where that argument goes).

Edited by KevinDW78
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My friend is also similiar. In a recent discussion I got all his wacky commie arguments to boil down to one thing - he says compromise is a part of nature. When I asked him where in nature?, he said, "EVERYWHERE!" then he tried to play the game of demanding that I prove where in nature compormise does NOT exist (we all know where that argument goes).

Sounds A LOT like the discussion I had. She kept saying that it's part (note the part) of our nature to come together as a collective. When I asked her "Then what is man's fundamental nature that leads him to that?" she evaded the question.

I sent the Youtube socialist the essay, and this is what he responded:

You're joking. This is a joke. I see that now. I'm not laughing, because it was one of those "scary" jokes ... but I get it. I'm sure I'll laugh about this in a day or two. Good one!

I LOVE my response:

You do realize that's not an argument, right?
Edited by Devils_Advocate
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I disagree with the general idea that many of you are making. I don't see it as a "waste of time" to argue with morons like this especially on places like youtube where people are reading about our ideas perhaps for the first time. Regular people are reading your comments as well as the stupid socialist idiots. We aren't trying to change the minds of socialist where about getting our ideas to the people in multiple different ways. Let the morons responses show through and show how ideas or best. I'm so tired of hearing fellow capitalist say "its a waste of time to debate our ideas against people who don't agree with us". It's not about changing the minds of those people its about putting our ideas forth to be seen by people who are simply reading the debate in general. You are changing minds of people who are reading what you are writing because you are correct! People will see how stupid this moron is, and your well written point of view will shine through as the truth.

Don't be a coward like other capitalist. You are doing the exact right thing, Fight these morons get our ideas out there. Don't forget that people are READING your views and are making their minds up based on it.

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Correct. The point of a debate is to convince the audience, not the guy on the other side.

If there is no audience, don't waste your time.

(Of course make sure this isn't some guy just asking questions and open to persuasion (and therefore worth your while) before deciding it is an audience-less debate.)

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Where can I find this 'debate' your involved in? I'm interested in checking it out.

I believe he said it was a PM (Private Message) discussion.

I'd like to agree, though, that making videos and arguing on Youtube and similar places can be of use. There are millions of people who go there daily, and while most of them are retards, there are plenty who are either smart and intelligent, or simply misguided. By debating and showing ideas in the personal manner that video-blogging allows, you can reach certain people who you might otherwise ever have a chance to.

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It's good debate practice. The guy responded with some rhetoric about the Industrial Revolution, I fired back, and he hasn't responded yet. Which means he probably won't. It's all right though, I did what I wanted to do - be able to explain capitalism, hone my debate skills, and try to convince a man that theft is wrong.

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