EC Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 By [email protected] (EC) from Atlantis,cross-posted by MetaBlog This is more of a short commentary on the reaction to the market crash yesterday than anything else. It was sort of funny, in an ironic sort of way, watching the talking heads on Fox and elsewhere completely baffled when the the market took a dump yesterday rather than rising like they expected in the wake of the "bailout" legislation. While what happened is exactly what I expected, since it is really the only thing that can happen when the government interferes with the economy on a nearly trillion dollar level, all they could talk about was why the "bailout" wasn't doing what they expected it to do--fix the "markets". It was just amusing watching people who claimed to be both "economic experts" and "fiscal conservatives" baffled that the plan wasn't working as they expected it should. It just shows how little even the so-called "experts" really understand how Capitalism actually works, and also why such a large intrusion into the economy can only cause the disastrous result that it has actually caused. It's also kind of funny, also in an ironic sort of way, that they now think that it will just "take time" for "positive" effects from the "bailout" to be seen. It's funny, but it is also an extremely serious situation, because nobody seems to see that what is actually being created is a Depression not an economic recovery as they expect will occur. We need to use this disaster as an opportunity to advocate the right ideas--now. This is how we will eventually win this war of ideas and eventually stop this nonsense from ever happening again. View the full article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funandlearning Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 By [email protected] (EC) from Atlantis,cross-posted by MetaBlog We need to use this disaster as an opportunity to advocate the right ideas--now. This is how we will eventually win this war of ideas and eventually stop this nonsense from ever happening again The question begs to pop out. How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Posted October 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 The question begs to pop out. How? That is what I am looking for suggestions on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrolicsomeQuipster Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 (edited) The question begs to pop out. How? Posting this on as many forums as possible? Making a YouTube channel about it? Blogging? Writing an actual article? Talking about it to people you know? Attempt to get a spot on a radio sender to talk about it? Mail it to your local news papers? Sending letters to the local government to request that they talk about it? The means are out there. Edited October 12, 2008 by FrolicsomeQuipster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juxtys Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Also, you can a proposal to stop Governments interference into the market and get as many signatures at it as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haemp Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 That is what I am looking for suggestions on. In the 30's crash there was initially a big influence on economists by the Austrian theory (free market), much by the help of Hayek and Mises. Sadly, thanks to Keynes, the economic trend got back to government invention. In the 70's the Keynsian system broke down. And people like Hayek and Freidman where once again in the spotlights, sadly Friedman advocated for a big central government run bank and though its better than the pure Keynsian theory - economic theory today is still terribly disintegrated and wrong. The crash and coming depression of 2010 will leave them completely bankrupt, yet again. But this time they KNOW that Socialism won't work, the KNOW that Keynsianism won't work and hopefully they will draw some logical conclusions and realize its time for a change. I think its important to make people realize the fact that modern economist DON'T know what they are doing and to see this financial crisis as a proof of just that. As to how that is going to be achieved more concretely, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Posted October 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Posting this on as many forums as possible? Making a YouTube channel about it? Blogging? Writing an actual article? Talking about it to people you know? Attempt to get a spot on a radio sender to talk about it? Mail it to your local news papers? Sending letters to the local government to request that they talk about it? The means are out there. All good ideas, but these are all the common activism strategies. They are of course, completely sound and as many people as can should do these. But, what I am looking for is something that will really reach a mass audience. Maybe, a weekly television show about the virtues of Capitalism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01503 Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 All good ideas, but these are all the common activism strategies. They are of course, completely sound and as many people as can should do these. But, what I am looking for is something that will really reach a mass audience. Maybe, a weekly television show about the virtues of Capitalism? Do you have the funds for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluey Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 The crash and coming depression of 2010 will leave them completely bankrupt, yet again. But this time they KNOW that Socialism won't work If only that were true ... instead it seems most of the popular blame is landing on the capitalists - and everyone is looking to the government for "solutions". I really don't think the message is getting out there that things like this WOULDN'T happen if only the governments would stop frigging around with the markets. I hear more along the lines of "see, this is what happens under capitalism. It's time to stand up for equality" and crap like that. Reminds me of the White Stripes song about how you can't take the effect and pretend it's the cause ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelH Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 The fundamental problem is that pure capitalism requires that the government not interfere. This is anathema to career politicians. "How can I do nothing? The economy is in trouble! I'd get voted out next election! Just tell me what to do to fix it!" If this sounds like a character from Atlas Shrugged, there's a reason. There are a few voices that spoke up against the bail-out, but they have been drowned out by the near-constant drumbeat of "we must do something"! This sets everyone up for government logic (from a poster on Slashdot whose name I do not have handy at the moment): "We must do something. This is something, therefore we must do this." They don't get it because they choose not to get it. Their careers depend on them not getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrolicsomeQuipster Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 All good ideas, but these are all the common activism strategies. They are of course, completely sound and as many people as can should do these. But, what I am looking for is something that will really reach a mass audience. Maybe, a weekly television show about the virtues of Capitalism? *This is John Galt speaking* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0918 Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) EC: Except now that the government has pledged to buy bank stocks, the stock market is up 300+ points. So where's your argument now? (besides saying correlation != causation) Edited October 13, 2008 by brian0918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'kian Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 The fundamental problem is that pure capitalism requires that the government not interfere. Not quite. It means the government would have to give up most of its power. That's something few politicians will ever consent to. Some do, or have done, here and there to some extent. But witness the outright hostility to the idea of term-limits. Most elected officials either stay at their post until they loose an election, die or become too old to keep going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 EC: Except now that the government has pledged to buy bank stocks, the stock market is up 300+ points. So where's your argument now? (besides saying correlation != causation) It can't last because government intervention in the economy can not "fix" it long term. Let me know if you want a long explanation of why what I am saying starting from first principle all the way up to today's events if you can't accept a simple abstract statement based on all that as true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelH Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Not quite. It means the government would have to give up most of its power. You are absolutely right; the government is still needed to enforce contracts. (And the police and military...) Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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