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Obama is President

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Im not american, but i haven't really understood what the big panic about Obama is? Even if he is the most leftist senator over there, he is still far better for objectivists than most so called "right wingers" in other "free" countries.

I guess there would be a similar thread if McCain had won.

I mean, i live in Finland that is among the top10-15 in most rankings of economic freedom in the world, and our major "right wing" party, the National Coalition Party, supports universal healthcare, "free" education including universities and colleges, higher taxation than US democrats, a mandatory 6-12 month military/civil service for men and huge subsidies for finnish agriculture.

So you settle with being 'relatively good'?

It's much better that a socialist president that is openly socialist wins, instead of a socialist president that claims to be for the free market. The abhorration that is the modern Republican Party deserved to lose, and this is the best result for us, as now the public has openly thrown out capitalism, and the results that will follow cant be falsely blamed on it. If McCain had won, it would have been a huge blow for the future of capitalism in the US. Now americans get socialism called socialism, instead of socialism called capitalism, and that is good.

In short term this is bad.

In long term this is only good if people will learn from the experience. To be honest I have my doubts about that. The only way is through direct eduction. People will not know why their system failed if they aren't educated and ignore principles.

The only really important things in US elections i would consern myself with is national security and keeping the religious nuts out of office. Both candidates had bad national security policies, but at least Obamas election stopped the religious threat, so im happy with Obama being elected....

Did it? Abortion aside I don't exactly see how the religious threat was stopped. It was merely replaced.

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I am going to look at the bright side. The idea that America is a 'racist nation' can finally be put to rest. A black man was elected president in a landslide. And the first people to hit the unemployment lines under an Obama administration are the race hustlers like Sharpton, Jackson, Farakhan, and Rev. Wright. Obama prooved that America is the land of opportunity, lets hope he doesnt ruin it for the rest of us.

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I am going to look at the bright side. The idea that America is a 'racist nation' can finally be put to rest. A black man was elected president in a landslide. And the first people to hit the unemployment lines under an Obama administration are the race hustlers like Sharpton, Jackson, Farakhan, and Rev. Wright. Obama prooved that America is the land of opportunity, lets hope he doesnt ruin it for the rest of us.

I disagree.

The fact that a 'black man' was elected does say nothing about the level of racism in America.

What about those who feel (unearned) guilt if they do not vote for Obama? ("He's black so I have to vote for him to show the world that I'm not racist.")

Edited by Clawg
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Im not american, but i haven't really understood what the big panic about Obama is? Even if he is the most leftist senator over there, he is still far better for objectivists than most so called "right wingers" in other "free" countries.

The problem with Obama is that his (implicit, if not explicit) goal is to destroy Western Civilization. Iran can stop working on their nuclear program now; they've got their man in the White House.

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The fact that a 'black man' was elected does say nothing about the level of racism in America.

Well, please put that in more concrete terms. The terminology 'level of racism' is ambiguous at best (as was 'racist nation'). Also, in comparison to what time frame? You were born in the early '80's. I'm not sure how much experience you have in America (as you location shows Germany). However, assuming you have spent some time in America in your formative growing up years, you are part of a generation that has largely been more accepting of 'diversity'. I'm not sure you grasp how much more prevalent racism was in the 60's and 70's for example. Even in the 80's or 90's the chance that a black man could have won the presidency was slim to none. In the small part of the world I live in, I've seen some fairly significant differences in attitudes about race between your generation, my generation, and the one that preceded mine. Could there be an apologist sympathy vote out there? Probably. Is significantly wide spread across the nation enough to elect the man president? Not so sure.

As I said, the terminology 'racist nation' is a bit vague too. How prevalent or ingrained in society must racism be before the whole nation is condemned as racist?

I'm going to have to side with the idea that the prevalence of racism has reduced significantly over the past 30-40 years, and that the election of a black president IS a significant indication of that change.

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So you settle with being 'relatively good'?

This was in reference to people talking about moving to other countries, and how there will be a socialistic apocalypse. Therefore i just made the point, that no matter how bad you think Obama is, there are no places on earth where you can so fully yourself affect your own life. Sure, there may be some economically free outpost in otherwise culturally unlivable places, but in general, the US still remains no.1, no matter if Obama is in.

And considering how little better McCain would have been, it is good that "false" capitalists arent allowed to tarnish the name of capitalism anymore.

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As I said, the terminology 'racist nation' is a bit vague too. How prevalent or ingrained in society must racism be before the whole nation is condemned as racist?
America is most definitely not significantly racist. Most countries in the world are significantly more racist than the U.S.A.

Actually, I think "racism" is too narrow a thing to use as a cross-cultural comparison; it is only one species of tribalism. Worry about societies being "tribalist": where group-membership counts too high. With "race" tribal membership is easier to identify visually; however, it is not that difficult to make other tribal identifications in other cultures: e.g. based on a person's last name.

Edited by softwareNerd
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I'm going to have to side with the idea that the prevalence of racism has reduced significantly over the past 30-40 years, and that the election of a black president IS a significant indication of that change.

Indication, yes, but no proof. To see the proof one has to look at the society more closely, as you have mentioned above, and I agree with you that things have improved.

What I disagree with is the notion that the fact alone says anything about the country because then people could argue that just by voting for Obama is their proof that they are no racist.

The only people the US can be proud of are those who voted for their candidate without letting race to be an issue. But how large that number is cannot be derived from the exit polls or the result itself.

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Racism is not just a white bias thing.

Think of the large percentage of blacks that voted for Obama just because he's black while completely ignoring his policies. That's also racism.

Edit: For that matter, think of all the white people that voted for him just because he's black. :P

Edited by ers
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I really hope this just trashes affirmative action. Clearly in the next 4-8 years affirmative action will be shored up enormously, but in the long term there is officially no excuse for this type of preferential treatment anymore.

Edited by skap35
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Racism is that thing which blacks belieive in and practice -- not whites. In the June 2008 Commentary magazine, Linda Chavez pointed out that about 10% of all whites (supposedly) have a basically negative view of blacks. But about 70% of all blacks have a basically negative view of whites. And this culture-wide real racism is written into law via "minority" scholarships, "affirmative action" employment, etc.

And what about that 10% of white people who seemingly are bigots? They're probably mostly just displaying defiant virtue and intransigent honesty on an issue they can't identify and about which virtually all those around them are hypocrits. So they ignorantly self-identify as "racists," as they blindly heroically resist anyway!

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I have to say I accept slight responsibility. I go to a massively pro-bama college in the bluest part of Ohio, and even though I fought them tooth and nail and gave big speeches and even gave out a few copies of AS, I hardly think I changed anyone's mind. One man cannot stand against one thousand, no matter what his intellectual arsenal.

I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing, I guess. Lying to the government about how much I make in tips and have them think I'm a lowly delivery guy who's barely scraping by, and accumulating a large amount of money and hiding it well. He can't steal what he doesn't know about. Hopefully by the time I have enough to start my business, we'll be back to a Capitalist country.

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Domestically, I think that in the near term the economy will pick up again under Obama. The Fed has pumped a tremendous amount of credit into the market and the Dems are going to push through a large, far reaching stimulus package that spends more of our borrowed money. They will also bail out the auto industry, which should give a temporary shot in the arm to some rust belt states. After a relatively short bubble, I think we'll see the shit really hit the fan. The coming downturn will make the current one look tame.

Internationally, I think America's enemies now have the green light. Look out for the Neo-Stalinists in Russia, the Islamo-Fascists in Iran, and that little piss-ant mischief-maker down in Venezuela. Chairman Obama doesn't have the balls to stand up to any of them in a meaningful way.

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I think Obama doesn't have enough fiscal leeway to implement anything too drastic, without making the recession significantly worse. The inflation spiked from the bailout money is already baked in. He'll have to weather that. I'm sure he knows that he can't trash the economy and expect to be around in 4 yrs - witness Carter. Popularly, the election was a referrendum on Bush and the economy. The giddiness will wear off after about 6 months.

At best, I expect the same that we've seen in the last 50 yrs, a continual erosion of individual rights at the margins. At worst, Obama will be the new FDR, creating a significant depression and blaming it on everyone but himself.

Expect Iraq to implode within 6-12 months after we leave, but then that was going to happen no matter who was president.

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I think there is WAY too much Chicken Little "The sky is falling". Some people here act like Obama is going to get sworn in and immediately march over to the National Archives where he will proceed to tear up the Constitution and Bill of Rights to the thunderous roar of a crowd millions. I'm not saying it's anything to be happy about, and mammon I think is just plain off his rocker. I break it down like this:

Pro: Watching all the racist redneck hicks and white-supremicists react to their new black president

Con: Seeing Hippies crying with tears of joy over their newly elected messiah

See - everybody wins.

Edited by KevinDW78
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'Pinch Me' ... A message from Michael Moore.

My favourite part: "In a nation that was founded on genocide and then built on the backs of slaves, it was an unexpected moment, shocking in its simplicity: Barack Obama..."

...If you ever needed proof that Michael Moore really hates America (which I'm sure you didn't).

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Im not american, but i haven't really understood what the big panic about Obama is? Even if he is the most leftist senator over there, he is still far better for objectivists than most so called "right wingers" in other "free" countries. I mean, i live in Finland that is among the top10-15 in most rankings of economic freedom in the world, and our major "right wing" party, the National Coalition Party, supports universal healthcare, "free" education including universities and colleges, higher taxation than US democrats, a mandatory 6-12 month military/civil service for men and huge subsidies for finnish agriculture. And these are the ones getting accused of being evil capitalists over here..... So i really dont get these knee jerk reactions on this board of all places, with people going all nuts with talk about moving abroad or some references to a coming socialist apocalypse when Obama gets elected.

Compared to McCain, his plans for reviving the economy is not that much worse, and as neither party wants to challenge the role of the Fed, it doesnt really matter THAT much how much he overtaxes the upper middle class/rich.

It's much better that a socialist president that is openly socialist wins, instead of a socialist president that claims to be for the free market. The abhorration that is the modern Republican Party deserved to lose, and this is the best result for us, as now the public has openly thrown out capitalism, and the results that will follow cant be falsely blamed on it. If McCain had won, it would have been a huge blow for the future of capitalism in the US. Now americans get socialism called socialism, instead of socialism called capitalism, and that is good.

Now we must all hope that the GOP takes notice and recognizes that God and "your gut feeling" doesnt win elections, and that it makes a decisive step towards free market capitalism and individual liberty, and loses this horrible religious socialism its been pushing for years.

Also, i think many objectivists overexaggerate the effect slightly higher taxation has. Sure it sucks, but much more important is the character of the people surrounding you, than whether the government robs 20 or 25% from your wallet. The US is still, from the most leftist democrats to the most nutty religious right wingers, the country where the pursuit of happiness is widely held as an ideal, and small changes in economic policies are not going to change that. I cant think of a single country in the world, where Obama would be considered a "true" leftist, and at least here in Finland he would fit in nicely with our "right wing".

As i like to say: "I would much rather live in a "socialist" country full of capitalists, than in a "capitalist" country full of socialists." What matters is how you can yourself affect your own situation, and the fact that someone wants to rob slightly more from you than the next guy, is not that big of a deal. It sucks, but all these knee jerk responses about some apocalypse are really laughable. McCain would not have fixed the economy any better than Obama, and now at least the socialists get the blame for it....

The only really important things in US elections i would consern myself with is national security and keeping the religious nuts out of office. Both candidates had bad national security policies, but at least Obamas election stopped the religious threat, so im happy with Obama being elected....

But the main jist of my post: Dont embarrass yourself with these knee jerk reactions.....

What Finland doesn't have is community organizers, unfair union and labor laws and ridiculous regulations in all areas of business- that's why it is considered to have a lot of economic freedom, despite the huge taxes.(I'm more familiar with Denmark than your country, actually, but I think there are a lot of similarities) In America the democrats, who are in control of everything now, are going to make doing business very difficult through those means, not so much through taxation directly. That is why I think that Obama is going to hurt the economy more, but you are right about this being a better result on the long run.( for the reasons you mentioned)

One thing that is going to come back and haunt the US (but hurt even more Europe and Israel, which are both going to be exposed to their missiles and the terror they breed), is the fact that he's not going to prevent Iran from getting nukes, while McCain at least might have tried.

While Americans have reason to at least be ambivalent about the whole thing, I think Europe has only to lose because of Obama's presidency: there is nothing good for Europe in American protectionism, restrictions on business-including European investments, global warming measures (which in Europe were somewhat limited only because the americans slowed down the trend Kyoto started), or a policy of appeasement with Iran.

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'Pinch Me' ... A message from Michael Moore.

My favourite part: "In a nation that was founded on genocide and then built on the backs of slaves, it was an unexpected moment, shocking in its simplicity: Barack Obama..."

...If you ever needed proof that Michael Moore really hates America (which I'm sure you didn't).

I remember Slobodan Milosevic talk about history in similar terms, in the 90's, assigning guilt on nations and etnic groups for things that happened hundreds of years ago, just before he proceeded to wipe them out.

Do you think he thought of himself as a righteous hero any less than Michael Moore considers himself that?

Edited by Jake_Ellison
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'Pinch Me' ... A message from Michael Moore.

My favourite part: "In a nation that was founded on genocide and then built on the backs of slaves, it was an unexpected moment, shocking in its simplicity: Barack Obama..."

LOL so the US was the only country who had slaves now??? Many of the Africans that were brought to America were slaves in Africa as well. I'm not saying it is justified at all. I'm saying that, that was the time period before individual rights.

Edited by dadmonson
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Well, the world seems to be cheering Obama as President because they think that America will be less confrontational.

TOKYO -- Across the globe, in concert halls and ballrooms, in plazas and beach parties and busy streets, the citizens of the world hailed the election of Barack Obama as a stroke for racial equality and voiced hopes his presidency would herald a more balanced, less confrontational America.

Our enemies are already emboldened.

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Well, the world seems to be cheering Obama as President because they think that America will be less confrontational.

TOKYO -- Across the globe, in concert halls and ballrooms, in plazas and beach parties and busy streets, the citizens of the world hailed the election of Barack Obama as a stroke for racial equality and voiced hopes his presidency would herald a more balanced, less confrontational America.

Our enemies are already emboldened.

That comes across to me as an implication that Japan is our enemy, which I disagree with - but in any case I think you are generally correct in stating that our real enemies are emboldened.

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LOL so the US was the only country who had slaves now??? Many of the Africans that were brought to America were slaves in Africa as well. I'm not saying it is justified at all. I'm saying that, that was the time period before individual rights.

Not to mention the Muslim slave traders and the Portugese and English slave ships who transported thier "goods" to America.

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