Moral_Free Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Is Loyalty a Virtue? I don’t necessarily think it’s a vice, I just believe it falls in the neutral ground of neither good nor bad. Loyalty to me always seemed to imply an obligation or a blind willingness to a subject. The virtuous qualities associated with loyalty seem not to be inherent in loyalty but in spite of it. In any example I think of it appears that the appealing aspects of "loyalty" are in fact, other virtues of rationality. “It is virtuous to be loyal to a friend in need.” This example would have you believe that a friend in need has currently nothing to offer you in return for your friendship. ( Friendship could be gifts, labor, or companionship in this case.) So in order for this person to get help from you he requires your loyalty because there is no incentive. I think one would help a friend in need to preserve something of value to ones self …their friendship. So in fact they do have something to offer. If they have something to offer there is no need for an obligation like loyalty. However if they no longer possess the qualities you found of value, and they truly have nothing to offer, than your loyalty to them is equated to charity an action deemed as neutral by Objectivism. I would like to know what anyone else thinks. Is loyalty in the Ayn Rand Lexicon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_speicher Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Is Loyalty a Virtue? Not in the sense that pride, justice, honesty, etc. are virtues. I don’t necessarily think it’s a vice, I just believe it falls in the neutral ground of neither good nor bad. Whether it is good or bad depends on what you are loyal to, and why. Loyalty to your values is a virtue -- integrity -- but blind loyalty to a cause is a vice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwakeAndFree Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Not in the sense that pride, justice, honesty, etc. are virtues. Whether it is good or bad depends on what you are loyal to, and why. Loyalty to your values is a virtue -- integrity -- but blind loyalty to a cause is a vice. I think loyalty to one's ideals and values is a part of the virtue of integrity. If you judge something to be a value, you must demonstrate it with actions. If you value a friend you must demonstrate it when the friendship needs it. But to be loyal to something just because it was once a value is not a virtue. It must be taken in context: there is no virtue in remaining loyal to an unfaithful wife, or a friend you don't care for anymore. It's also a matter of price: you must never sacrifice a higher value for a lower value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moral_Free Posted August 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 If you judge something to be a value, you must demonstrate it with actions. If you value a friend you must demonstrate it when the friendship needs it. That’s true but I think acting on your values doesn’t show loyalty it shows rationality. Demonstrating loyalty to a person or cause is usually independent of or ranks higher than value judgments. That’s why a loyal friend will help do something that is normally against their values. I believe what often goes for loyalty and disloyalty is rationality, a person who will act on values (good or bad) instead of just acting loyal. Just think of its most popular contexts; my voters are loyal, or they are loyal supporters. Statements like that imply an unlikelihood of the people being swayed regardless of what happens just because their loyal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 That’s true but I think acting on your values doesn’t show loyalty it shows rationality. Isn't it possible to be loyal to rationality (i.e. always making an effort to think and act rational)? The morality/immorality of loyalty lies in the subject that one shows loyalty to. Demonstrating loyalty to a person or cause is usually independent of or ranks higher than value judgments. Your statement is only true for someone with a flawed morality. If someone doesn't trust their own judgement or thinks that there is something that "trumps" it (like religion the wishes of others), then it would be understandable that he would betray his values. But a truly moral person would only demonstrate loyalty to things that coincide with his values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMNAPIV Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Moral_Free, out of curiosity, did you pose the question because you're studying for the GREs? I just had to write an essay debating that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 I agree with Stephen. Loyalty is a complete neutral: it's moral status is entirely dependant upon what one is loyal to. Loyalty to values is a good; loyalty to a person or cause in a way that is separate from or contrary to values would be a vice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.