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Benpercent

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I had some thoughts after reading this:

[...] I was part of a group of 3-4 people talking to Miss Rand after an NBI lecture and we were discussing naming children. She was very opposed to naming children after their parents or after living people because she thought a child should have his own identity.

Then I remembered that for quite a while I have been wanting to change my name. Not only are "Ben" and "Skipper" by themselves extremely common names, but there are many men existing today with the same exact combination! Far too horribly common for me.

It will probably be awhile before I can get the funds to change my name (even if the actual process is cheap, there are other things to consider such as license's and my SS card), but I would at least like to start right now entertaining alternatives. My main focus is to actually invent a name, but lacking knowledge in linguistics I am not sure where to start in my thinking or researching. But, of course, this thread is not limited only to my changing my name.

The things I would like to discuss are 1.) what are your views on someone changing their name, 2.) in the process of changing a name (whether it be inventing or selecting it), what criterion should one focus on; and 3.) should names mean something etymologically, or should they just be pronounceable?

Thank you for your time.

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Why not just be the best Ben Skipper that you can be, make your name mean you and all that you stand for. I know for instance that there are many of other Eric Clayton's in this world but I consider myself the Eric Clayton, regardless of others knowing or acknowledging that fact or not.

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I know there have been quite a few Objectivists who've changed their name because it wasn't fitting. I've never really understood that though. If I were you, I'd be delighted to have the name Ben Skipper. It sounds bad ass. But if changing it makes you happier, then of course you should do so.

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The things I would like to discuss are 1.) what are your views on someone changing their name,

That's strictly their business.

2.) in the process of changing a name (whether it be inventing or selecting it), what criterion should one focus on;

Whatever criteria matter to you. Whether you want to be closer tot he top of the alphabet, for practical reasons, or nearer the end for that matter. Or whether you preffer a more pleasant name, or one that's easier to spell, etc.

and 3.) should names mean something etymologically, or should they just be pronounceable?

That depends on what you want. When I write fiction I prefer to attach meaning to names. SOmetimes that's relevant, sometimes not. Sometimes I use real names or derive names from real words (as for example the name "Loomin" derived from the Latin word for light), sometimes I make up meanings from ficticious languages (like "Na'ared" which means "never agan" in a made up alien tongue).

I do recommend a name that's pronounceable, if only so you won't have to spell it very often.

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I'm curious about something. Objectivists (especially the young ones) believe they have all the answers. Yet invariably, they ask the opinion of strangers on the most personal things. Why is that? Do these people believe Galt or Roar went around saying, gee, what's your opinion on this?

Isn't is easier just to use your own mind? Even if a mistake is make, it's YOUR mistake.

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You could make up a phonotactically permissible combination of English sounds which is almost certainly unique and let it be your name. Example: Plambanackahortiflor. There are bazillions of such possiblilities, in case you like the sound of Brolmingabnar better. Such a name sends a message -- about being weird, or from another planet. Such names have no etymology. An alternative would be to find some low-frequency name like "Jebediah" or "Ukumu" that could be pronounced (ruling out the rare Kung name n/'aukabe) and that have meaning, historically speaking. You could look up the meaning of "Jebediah", and "Ukumu" means "Judge" (in Kimatuuumbi). So let me propose Ukumu. There was a guy named Ukumu in Matuumbiland, but nobody on this side has heard of him. Now ask yourself, would your life be better if you were named Ukumu?My view is that changing a name is rarely a good thing. (Unles you're a boy named Sue).

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Some thoughts:

Objectivists (especially the young ones) believe they have all the answers

That I think is a hasty generalization. If you mean instead that they sometimes act as though they do, when they shouldn't, that would imply that asking opinions is the proper thing to do.

Yet invariably, they ask the opinion of strangers on the most personal things. Why is that?

When one is unsure of how to analyze a particular problem I think it's rational to see if the problem has ever been addressed by anyone else as a comparison to what they're thinking. There are all sorts of irrational reasons one might ask, but this strikes me as a rational one.

"other Objetivists" strike me as different from total strangers. Especially since philosophy does address so many areas, especially values, it might have something to say on the topic. Wheter it does or not would not be something I'd expect everyone to know before asking.

btw, if this is somehow unique to or overrepresented in Objectivists I'd be stunned, shocked and agasp. Look at the dearth of advise shows and advice columns and one could make the same argument. Why does someone go ask Dr. Laura if she should sleep with a guy? Why do children ask their parents advice on tons of stuff?

Do these people believe Galt or Roar went around saying, gee, what's your opinion on this?

Objectivism isn't being like Galt or Roark so I don't derive the philosophy from the behavior or fictional characters. I think a better way to think about that would be whether or not there is a valid reason for seeking the opinion of others. I think it is a mistake to think that such actions are inherently 2nd handed.

Isn't is easier just to use your own mind? Even if a mistake is make, it's YOUR mistake.

That's sort of like asking isn't it easier to just guess. No, actually. Just guessing could have serious repurcusions. I think it's prudent if one doens't know how to think about a problem to seek an opinion rather than guess and risk significant error and cost.

________________

All that said, I do think that we sometimes take Rand's opinions on everything and give them far too much weight. Outside of her direct area of expertise, her opinion on things were just that, opinions. They might be well informed opinions, and certainly she was known to be very broadly integrating of things in her life. However, that does not mean her opinion, given without any context for her reasoning, is worth anything more than any other contextless opinion.

For instance, the identity reasoning above, may or may not be valid. That is really an area for the special sciences, namely psychology. I think it's highly contextual, also. Just because my name is John Smith, doesn't mean that I won't have my own identity. One could even argue that if my name was Thomas Jefferson that it woulnd't have that much impact on me. Maybe naming after my father, who interacts with me on a daily basis, might. But that also doesn't mean it's assured, and there would be no conditions under which I couldn't do it.

Edited by KendallJ
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I have just enough difficulty with my last name that sometimes, when it's inconsequential (like making a reservation at a restaurant) I'll give my last name as "Dean." Figuring no one will ever misspell that. I did this once at an auto parts store (they were placing an order for a part) and I watched the guy type in "DEEN" and managed not to laugh. To this day when I order a part from them and give them my work phone number, it shows up as DEEN.

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My last name is simple Gasser. A good German name but I've had Glasser, Grazner Glazer Grazer, Grasser and one clerk that just looked at me and said. "Ha, I thought that was a typo!"

Her name was Jones. I commented on the pedestrian nature of that you can be sure... :?

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Now ask yourself, would your life be better if you were named Ukumu?My view is that changing a name is rarely a good thing. (Unles you're a boy named Sue).

;) Greatly put.

All that said, I do think that we sometimes take Rand's opinions on everything and give them far too much weight.

A misunderstanding. I am not considering changing my name because I have read Rand's opinion on names; reading that quote just reminded me that I have been thinking about changing my name for quite some time. I just got around to make a thread about it now, after a few weeks of entertaining the idea.

For instance, the identity reasoning above, may or may not be valid. That is really an area for the special sciences, namely psychology.

Since a man's self is his mind, my position on the "name=identity" issue is that it is invalid. But really, I'm not looking for my identity, I'm looking for my own symbol. All words are symbols which represent percepts. I dislike the idea that my symbols (all three of them) are very commonly shared.

Yet invariably, they ask the opinion of strangers on the most personal things. Why is that?

Well, for one I wouldn't consider this too deeply personal. I did not know where to start in my thinking, or if I have covered enough bases in what thinking I have done, so I opened this thread to not only get some leads, but other perspectives I haven't considered. Adrock3215, for example, has given me another blessing to count.

Plus I'm not asking random people, I'm asking people who share a common way of thinking, most commonly a philosophy.

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I dislike the idea that my symbols (all three of them) are very commonly shared.

OK, I understand that you do. I guess my question to you would be should you? The fact that you do feel that way is not enough. To answer that, you'd have to tell me what it was about that emotion that was relevant to anything.

Personally, I find that sort of thought less relevant than Rand's.

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Well, you could do what I do when I'm writing: use a fairly ordinary name and change a letter or two. This gives a little unusual flavor without making the names impossible to pronounce. So I guess you could be Ban or Bin or Bon or Bun. Bun Scupper. There we go. ;)

Sorry, that joke was probably a lot more amusing to me than to anyone else.

Personally, I've reached the stage where my name is so entrenched that I can't see it being worth the effort to change it. I mean, do you *really* want to spend months or possibly years correcting everyone you know with "I'm called Bun now". Wouldn't that get old? And then, once you've finally made the change, won't it be annoying when you get official mail and people ask "Who the hell is Ben?"

I think your name should be like your ears--and you should think about it as often as you seriously think about changing your ears. :P

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I have seriously thought about changing my last name (wro-blew-ski - sure it seems easy when I write it like that, but nobody EVER understands the "w") for several reasons. For starters, I have never NOT had to spell it or pronounce it when having to give it over the phone or at an appointment, etc. It's unreadable, unpronounceable, and unspellable to the average person, and it becomes anonying to always do so. Also, I am not all too fond of the idea of carrying on my father's name given my relationship with the man throughout my life. It's bad enough I have to have my middle name be the same as his first name.

Edited by KevinDW78
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Ugh, Polish names are the worst, it seems. They use the Latin alphabet but the spelling conventions are totally different (very very consistent though, unlike English). I would suppose it was pronounced Vroblevski in the old country, but the Ws just become silent here. (And lets not get started on cz, sz and even rz as they appear in Polish.) I know someone named Tuliszewski, pronounced Too lih zoo ski here, but (in all likelihood) Too lih shev ski there. And a Strzok (the z becomes silent) and a Dzuris (dz is one sound in the original language, but it inevitably became Duh-Zuris here, at least when people didn't just drop the D totally). (Those last two names are probably not Polish but from somewhere else in Eastern Europe.)

Edit: added last sentence and a few qualifiers.

Edited by Steve D'Ippolito
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As someone who is actually going to change their name here soon I can offer several reasons why is would be advantageous.

Right now we live in a world that's built very heavily on social image and networking. It's becoming common practice for employers to look you up on the Internet while considering whether to hire you or not. Look yourself up on the Internet and if you're like most people you'll find there are dozens of others with your exact name. There are people who not only have your name, but who also have the same dreams, goals and ambitions that you do. In order to make yourself stand out amongst the masses here you now have to engage in some form of personal branding. What makes you stand out more then a unique name?

We don't choose our names, and that's a really not fair. Some of us are condemned to a life of constantly having to correct people, or endure teasing all for something we had no choice in. We just accept what someone else forced on us. You can make everything else about yourself, so why not be able to make your own name? Why be confined to a linage if you don't want to be?

Some reasons are just personal though. For instance, not a lot of people remember my name so they really don't remember me. How many times did you walk up to someone and say "Hey... GUY!" It's pathetic when people don't remember your name, and even more so when they call you the wrong name all the time. I've been called, Josh, Joey, Jim, Jack and Jason more then Justin in my life.

For me, getting my real name right by people is rarity, they call me what they want, so I might as well pick something else that I want.

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When I was younger I considered changing my last name. Mostly due to family issues which have since cleared up in recent years. Now though, it seems that my name is so much a part of who I am, my persona, that I wouldn't give it up. When people say "Michael Lenahan," they know exactly who I am.

In the end, I have grown very attached to those five little syllables. I suggest before you go and change your name, consider instead making your current name your own. Instead of become Bun Scupper or what have you, make Ben Skipper into who you are.

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Imagine "Heywood Jablome"

I did have a Polish grandmother but believe me, she was already Americanized; I think her parents were the ones who came over. To the best of my knowlege she didn't speak a word of Polish. I certainly learned nothing of it from her. My practical experience with Polish, such as it is, comes from a couple of days spent there back in 1992. I figured out some of the conventions of the orthography there, and the language is similar enough to Russian (which I took two years of) that I could sometimes spot cognates (after accounting for spelling) and do a little deciphering. Like seeing "Poczta" on a post office, I quickly figured out that was "Pochta" (and cz was therefore a "ch" sound) because the Russian is Почта, "Pochta".

Also "Warszawa" (Warsaw) I heard pronounced "Varshava." That got me "sz" = "sh" and "W" = "v". Believe me this doesn't tell me everything I would need to know (like the crossed L, or what "rz" sounds like). I am sure what I didn't figure out and have no clue about not knowing, is twice as much or more as what I did figure out.

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My first and last name are both pretty in line with my Irish ethnicity, Ryan Calhoun. However, my mother said she just liked the name Ryan and had to think of something else besides what my father wanted (Floyed :santa: , named after him).

I like my name. For some reason I feel Ryan fits me very well, and I'm glad my mom didn't really name me after someone. However, it will be hard to name my son anything but Ragnar, if I ever have one.

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  • 3 weeks later...

After some more thinking about David and Kendall's points, I have to concur that my desire to change my name was rather rationally unjustified. I have decided then to keep my name the way it is, for it is not the clothes that make the man. So what if it is common? John Galt was a common name in the world of Atlas Shrugged.

I thank you all for your advice and say that my personal problem is concluded.

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