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Well thats just like, your opinion man.

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Axiomatic

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I've recently been having various debates with people on philisophical and political topics, both of which I have most definetly won. I'm not ashamed at all to say that I love debating and I enjoy winning a whole lot more than losing. What I find intruiging is the amount of times afetr winning a debate I was confronted with the phrase 'Well, thats just like, your opinion man'. I thought about this a bit and what kind of mind would make such a statement in the face of defeat. Correct me if I'm wrong but a person that holds the view that all knowledge is uncertain and relative, that no-one can ever be sure that something is true, and that all knowledge in essence just an opinion, must have been influenced to some degree by Kantian philosophy? Either way I've found it useless to debate with these kinds of people, they never learn anything from it. I do however always retort with the phrase "Are you certain of that?". At least then I can smile and enjoy the victory.

Another point I want to make is that here in Britain there is a mainstream mindset to be against everything American since the Iraqi occupation. This really angers me and is one occasion I can really lose my cool with people. Its as if some people think they can suckle on America's teat whilst punching it in the other. Most British won't even acknowledge that America is the freest and wealthiest nation and that wealth is a GOOD thing.

There is so much more I could say, but sufficed to say that Anti-Americanism makes me sick and very angry to the point where I cannot debate rationally. :P

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Correct me if I'm wrong but a person that holds the view that all knowledge is uncertain and relative, that no-one can ever be sure that something is true, and that all knowledge in essence just an opinion, must have been influenced to some degree by Kantian philosophy?

Indeed. Some platonists might like to hold that, inspite of the Mind/Body dichotomy, some kind of knowledge is possible. The thing with Kantianism is that whatever you think you know, it will still only ever be part of the 'Mind' section, and never have anything to do with the 'Body'.

Another point I want to make is that here in Britain there is a mainstream mindset to be against everything American since the Iraqi occupation.

Since Iraq? I don't think it's anything new, but I know what you mean. And I don't think it's just America, but the whole 'arrogant, seflish' idea of Westernism. I think they partly think there is something wrong and racist in even being proud of or even noting a distinction of value between the West and the East, which I imagine is owing to multiculturalism more than anything.

The little permanent protest outside the Houses of Parliament now has a few Palestinian flags stuck up, in light of Israel occupation. I don't know if you've seen that. There was also that incident outside Downing Street with the shoes. Those guys just don't like any defence of values and do just make me sick.

As for what to do with these people who claim it's all just opinion, ask them why they care so much -- if it's got nothing to do with anything, ask them why they do (if they do, in fact, want to) get involved with the political system and change things. That's just their opinion. At the end of the day, you're better off walking away. I will say to you, though, in my experience, these people are the minority, so I wouldn't worry about it as a trend.

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Another point I want to make is that here in Britain there is a mainstream mindset to be against everything American since the Iraqi occupation. This really angers me and is one occasion I can really lose my cool with people. Its as if some people think they can suckle on America's teat whilst punching it in the other. Most British won't even acknowledge that America is the freest and wealthiest nation and that wealth is a GOOD thing.

There is so much more I could say, but sufficed to say that Anti-Americanism makes me sick and very angry to the point where I cannot debate rationally. :dough:

That problem particular form of evasion is common on this side of the pond too, but we didn't wait till the Iraq war, Canada has always been the mouse that roared sleeping beside the lion.

Don't get me wrong, Canada has in history punched far above its weight (both world wars and arguably Afghanistan today) but immediately after doing something heroic there is a particular Canadian schism that we begin to tear down all our good works and deride our accomplishments.

The only thing more vociferous than this national self-immolation is our condemnation of our American friends who we were often toiling right along side of.

:P

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Its as if some people think they can suckle on America's teat whilst punching it in the other.

In Mexico it's common for people to hold these two views:

1) The evil americans are keeping Mexico down with the imposition of a free trade agreement that lets them export their goods to Mexico.

2) The evil Americans are keeping Cuba down by maintaining a trade embargo on that country.

There's more, especially regarding immigration. But also about culture, language and even sports.

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Indeed. Some platonists might like to hold that, inspite of the Mind/Body dichotomy, some kind of knowledge is possible. The thing with Kantianism is that whatever you think you know, it will still only ever be part of the 'Mind' section, and never have anything to do with the 'Body'.

Yes, that does make sense. Its also a kind of fuzzy moral relativism that is very pervasive in our society today.

Since Iraq? I don't think it's anything new, but I know what you mean. And I don't think it's just America, but the whole 'arrogant, seflish' idea of Westernism. I think they partly think there is something wrong and racist in even being proud of or even noting a distinction of value between the West and the East, which I imagine is owing to multiculturalism more than anything.

No, its not really anything new but its been stepped up a whole bucnh of notches since Iraq. Not that I agree at all with the invasion of Iraq.

I think multiculturalism could be largley responsible for Anti-American sentiment as it seems to be the general rhetoric of the political establishment here to jump on that bandwagon.

The little permanent protest outside the Houses of Parliament now has a few Palestinian flags stuck up, in light of Israel occupation. I don't know if you've seen that. There was also that incident outside Downing Street with the shoes. Those guys just don't like any defence of values and do just make me sick.

No I wasn't aware of that, generally becuase I avoid watching T.V. nowadays, especially any twisted news from the BBC. But that is atrocious, now Isreal can't even defend itself against terrorists that like to kill Isreali civilians and hide out in civilian terriritories. The blood is on the hands of Palistinians who voted in Hamas.

As for what to do with these people who claim it's all just opinion, ask them why they care so much -- if it's got nothing to do with anything, ask them why they do (if they do, in fact, want to) get involved with the political system and change things. That's just their opinion. At the end of the day, you're better off walking away. I will say to you, though, in my experience, these people are the minority, so I wouldn't worry about it as a trend.

Yes, I am better off walking away, I see that. But this kind of view is much more pervasive than you might think.

Edited by Axiomatic
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What I find intruiging is the amount of times afetr winning a debate I was confronted with the phrase 'Well, thats just like, your opinion man'. I thought about this a bit and what kind of mind would make such a statement in the face of defeat. Correct me if I'm wrong but a person that holds the view that all knowledge is uncertain and relative, that no-one can ever be sure that something is true, and that all knowledge in essence just an opinion, must have been influenced to some degree by Kantian philosophy?

It's possible, although the statement is as much an evasion as a statement of philosophy.

I've never understood why someone who asserts that there is no such thing as certainty or knowledge would even bother debating (except to try and disarm the person who claims certainty). Is one floating abstraction supposed to trump the other, let alone someone who may base their arguments on certainty and reality?

Edited by Sir Andrew
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Yes, it had to be said. People in this country don't like America, but especially Americans one bit. :P

Have you ever sat and watched a patriotic Hollywood epic with your family like Pearl Harbour ? Did they cringe with embarrassment as mine did at "cheesy American victory music" ? Now Pearl Harbour and most Hollywood epics are cheesy. Yes, but, there is a deeper issue...

Does anyone remmber the story about the Yorkshire miner (I think he was) from Ayn Rand's book of horrors ? Such attitude to work is common here now. It's one good man in 100. Or in this case 3000.

My late uncle (a non-intellectual) remarked on this "sorry pal I'm on my lunch" attitude from young (20's - 40's) employees of his customers. Working anything above what is expected is an imposition.

Dr. Bernstein does us a great service in his book, and it just makes it painfully clear how much we've lost.

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I got the infamous "that's just what I believe" today. :P

That's related to "I have a right to my opinions," coupled either with a hurt look, or a defiant one (in either case meaning one ought to respect the content of his opinions, rather than just his right to hold whichever he wants).

One I used to get was "Maybe in your reality."

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