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Marilyn Manson

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Lagroht
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I don't want you and I don't need you

Don't bother to resist, Ill beat you

Its not your fault that you're always wrong

The weak ones are there to justify the strong

The beautiful people, the beautiful people

Its all relative to the size of your steeple

You cant see the forest for the trees

You cant smell

Your own shit on your knees

Hey you, what do you see?

Something beautiful, something free?

Hey you, are you trying to be mean?

If you live with apes, man, its hard to be clean

Theres no time to discriminate,

Hate every motherfucker

Thats in your way

The worms will live in every host

Its hard to pick which one they eat most

The horrible people, the horrible people

Its as anatomic as the size of your steeple

Capitalism has made it this way,

Old-fashioned fascism

Will take it away

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To me this song seems to exemplify the 'hatred of the good for being the good' as described by Ayn Rand in 'the age of envy'.

Hey you, what do you see?

Something beautiful, something free?

...

...

Capitalism has made it this way,

Old-fashioned fascism

Will take it away

It is only not clear to me if our dear Brian Warner means to bate the vultures at their expense or if he himself is the hater....

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If Metallica's anger is of the "Don't Tread on Me" variety, Manson's is of the "we're all evil, don't you see?" variety. I've read his bio, and at times agreed with a few things (he's a Rush fan, and may have even read some Rand), but overall, he's ugly for ugly's sake. What saddened me is that I think he knew it, and hinted at wanting to change that. I saw a bit of that on MECHANICAL ANIMALS, the only album I can listen to, but I think he tried to change a bit, and lost his fans who didn't want change, so he reverted. Ironically, it's no longer shocking, and he comes off like a cartoon without any relevance. His performance on a late show performing "This is Halloween" from NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS nailed the coffin on his career. He's about as scary as Alice Cooper on the Muppets.

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Just to be clear, I actually think it is a good song.

I was just wondering if maybe his whole presentation is about holding up a mirror to the envious hypocrites who present themselves as descent altruists but do not dare to admit to themselves the real nature of their resentment of successful people.

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Just to be clear, I actually think it is a good song.

I was just wondering if maybe his whole presentation is about holding up a mirror to the envious hypocrites who present themselves as descent altruists but do not dare to admit to themselves the real nature of their resentment of successful people.

I thought about that initially, but a man holding a mirror doesn't use his own body and life as the mirror. It's more like the Nietzschean abyss than a mirror: "Be careful that when you look into the abyss, the abyss doesn't look into you..."

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I don't want you and I don't need you

Don't bother to resist, Ill beat you

Its not your fault that you're always wrong

The weak ones are there to justify the strong

The beautiful people, the beautiful people

Its all relative to the size of your steeple

You cant see the forest for the trees

You cant smell

Your own shit on your knees

Hey you, what do you see?

Something beautiful, something free?

Hey you, are you trying to be mean?

If you live with apes, man, its hard to be clean

Theres no time to discriminate,

Hate every motherfucker

Thats in your way

The worms will live in every host

Its hard to pick which one they eat most

The horrible people, the horrible people

Its as anatomic as the size of your steeple

Capitalism has made it this way,

Old-fashioned fascism

Will take it away

I just listened to the song. It's terrible. Just from a purely musical perspective the only thing going for it is the guitar riff, but it's far too repetitive. Nothing original. The lyrics are nihilistic and the video is deliberately ugly (the one I saw).

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The lyrics are immoral, because they express anti-life views. Doesn't mean it's immoral to listen to the song, however. I mean, you can gain some musical value from it.

I guess I disagree. Words have no force against you. And it is choice to listen.

And I'll agree it's a song of sarcasm.

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I guess I disagree. Words have no force against you. And it is choice to listen.

And I'll agree it's a song of sarcasm.

If the ideas expressed are virulently anti-capitalist and anti-life, then the ideas are evil. I don't think you can get around that. Words per se have no power against you, but the ideas when translated into action (and that's what gives ideas meaning) are evil. Certainly I'm not arguing against his right to express bad ideas, I'm just identifying the ideas for what they are.

I mean, Mein Kampf is full of evil ideas, even though the ideas in book form aren't harmful per se.

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I've been a fan of Manson's work for over ten years. That said, however, I've got to admit that the lyrics on that particular album are extremely nihilistic and anti-life. At that point, he was a profoundly depressed and angry man and his lyrics reflected that anger and hopelessness. I will disagree with Thales, though, in his claim that he is virulently anti-capitalist simply because he was anti-everything. The reference to capitalism in that song was simply in order to shock with the following statement regarding fascism. He reveled in contradictions and dichotomies (and still does in his current work, but less overtly). One of the main points of his work was to simply become the personification of evil in the viewpoint of all who listened to him. Definitely not something to value. :confused:

Here's another song from that album that more accurately summarizes what he valued (the answer is: nothing):

Marilyn Manson - 1996

anti choice

anti girl

I am the anti flag unfurled

anti white and anti man

I got the anti future plan

anti fascist

anti mod

I am the anti music god

anti sober

anti whore

there will never be enough of anti more

I can't believe in the things

that don't believe in me

now it's your turn to see misanthropy

anti people now you've gone too far

here's your antichrist superstar

anti money

anti hate

anti things I fucked and ate

anti cop

anti fun

here is my anti-president gun

anti Satan

anti black

anti world is on my back

anti gay and anti dope

I am the faggot anti-pope

(bridge)

(chorus)

anti peace

anti life

anti husband, anti wife

anti song and anti me

I don't deserve a chance to be

(chorus)

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Okay, he's pointing out contradictions in the philosophies of others, which I enjoy, but what does he offer to fill in the vacuum? Is he saying it's all hopeless and worthless? That's the impression I get. I mean, being negative and unhappy is easy. Happiness, otoh, is something you have to work to achieve.

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Okay, he's pointing out contradictions in the philosophies of others, which I enjoy, but what does he offer to fill in the vacuum? Is he saying it's all hopeless and worthless? That's the impression I get. I mean, being negative and unhappy is easy. Happiness, otoh, is something you have to work to achieve.

He offers nothing, lol.

Hedonism, maybe, but nothing good.

He was very nice when I met him a few years ago, though. That probably means something :confused:.

Edited by Ordr
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I was under the impression that the whole album Antichrist superstar was a three part story line. I forget exactly what the story was about but each song represents the evolution of the “worm” as he calls him into a figure of power. While at the same time each of the songs has personal meaning to Manson himself.

Edited by Rearden_Steel
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I was under the impression that the whole album Antichrist super stare was a three part story line. I forget exactly what the story was about but each song represents the evolution of the “worm” as he calls him into a figure of power. While at the same time each of the songs has personal meaning to Manson himself.

Yeah, it's the rise from a "worm" to a (antichrist) superstar who is eventually killed by those who claimed to love him. The theme that begins and ends the album is "When you are suffering, know that I have betrayed you". It's pretty vague but nonetheless interesting.

Edited by Ordr
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