Lagroht Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I don't want you and I don't need you Don't bother to resist, Ill beat you Its not your fault that you're always wrong The weak ones are there to justify the strong The beautiful people, the beautiful people Its all relative to the size of your steeple You cant see the forest for the trees You cant smell Your own shit on your knees Hey you, what do you see? Something beautiful, something free? Hey you, are you trying to be mean? If you live with apes, man, its hard to be clean Theres no time to discriminate, Hate every motherfucker Thats in your way The worms will live in every host Its hard to pick which one they eat most The horrible people, the horrible people Its as anatomic as the size of your steeple Capitalism has made it this way, Old-fashioned fascism Will take it away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagroht Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 To me this song seems to exemplify the 'hatred of the good for being the good' as described by Ayn Rand in 'the age of envy'. Hey you, what do you see? Something beautiful, something free? ... ... Capitalism has made it this way, Old-fashioned fascism Will take it away It is only not clear to me if our dear Brian Warner means to bate the vultures at their expense or if he himself is the hater.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceplayer Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 If Metallica's anger is of the "Don't Tread on Me" variety, Manson's is of the "we're all evil, don't you see?" variety. I've read his bio, and at times agreed with a few things (he's a Rush fan, and may have even read some Rand), but overall, he's ugly for ugly's sake. What saddened me is that I think he knew it, and hinted at wanting to change that. I saw a bit of that on MECHANICAL ANIMALS, the only album I can listen to, but I think he tried to change a bit, and lost his fans who didn't want change, so he reverted. Ironically, it's no longer shocking, and he comes off like a cartoon without any relevance. His performance on a late show performing "This is Halloween" from NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS nailed the coffin on his career. He's about as scary as Alice Cooper on the Muppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrisan Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 If you think that's bad, just watch the music video. Yech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skap35 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Manson is a total moron, but his music is really great for getting pumped up at the gym. (assuming you're like me and listen to music for the beat and just ignore all the words) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kori Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 His sarcasm apparently doesn't come off very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagroht Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Just to be clear, I actually think it is a good song. I was just wondering if maybe his whole presentation is about holding up a mirror to the envious hypocrites who present themselves as descent altruists but do not dare to admit to themselves the real nature of their resentment of successful people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceplayer Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Just to be clear, I actually think it is a good song. I was just wondering if maybe his whole presentation is about holding up a mirror to the envious hypocrites who present themselves as descent altruists but do not dare to admit to themselves the real nature of their resentment of successful people. I thought about that initially, but a man holding a mirror doesn't use his own body and life as the mirror. It's more like the Nietzschean abyss than a mirror: "Be careful that when you look into the abyss, the abyss doesn't look into you..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I don't want you and I don't need you Don't bother to resist, Ill beat you Its not your fault that you're always wrong The weak ones are there to justify the strong The beautiful people, the beautiful people Its all relative to the size of your steeple You cant see the forest for the trees You cant smell Your own shit on your knees Hey you, what do you see? Something beautiful, something free? Hey you, are you trying to be mean? If you live with apes, man, its hard to be clean Theres no time to discriminate, Hate every motherfucker Thats in your way The worms will live in every host Its hard to pick which one they eat most The horrible people, the horrible people Its as anatomic as the size of your steeple Capitalism has made it this way, Old-fashioned fascism Will take it away I just listened to the song. It's terrible. Just from a purely musical perspective the only thing going for it is the guitar riff, but it's far too repetitive. Nothing original. The lyrics are nihilistic and the video is deliberately ugly (the one I saw). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD26 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 It's a, what, twelve year old song now. A lot of shock value in Manson, even by name. It's entertainment. Personally, I enjoy industrial rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Caya Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 That's what I was going to say. Yes the song is immoral, but you have to realize that it's built with one purpose: shock value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD26 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yes the song is immoral... How is it immoral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 How is it immoral? The lyrics are immoral, because they express anti-life views. Doesn't mean it's immoral to listen to the song, however. I mean, you can gain some musical value from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD26 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 The lyrics are immoral, because they express anti-life views. Doesn't mean it's immoral to listen to the song, however. I mean, you can gain some musical value from it. I guess I disagree. Words have no force against you. And it is choice to listen. And I'll agree it's a song of sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I guess I disagree. Words have no force against you. And it is choice to listen. And I'll agree it's a song of sarcasm. If the ideas expressed are virulently anti-capitalist and anti-life, then the ideas are evil. I don't think you can get around that. Words per se have no power against you, but the ideas when translated into action (and that's what gives ideas meaning) are evil. Certainly I'm not arguing against his right to express bad ideas, I'm just identifying the ideas for what they are. I mean, Mein Kampf is full of evil ideas, even though the ideas in book form aren't harmful per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordr Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I've been a fan of Manson's work for over ten years. That said, however, I've got to admit that the lyrics on that particular album are extremely nihilistic and anti-life. At that point, he was a profoundly depressed and angry man and his lyrics reflected that anger and hopelessness. I will disagree with Thales, though, in his claim that he is virulently anti-capitalist simply because he was anti-everything. The reference to capitalism in that song was simply in order to shock with the following statement regarding fascism. He reveled in contradictions and dichotomies (and still does in his current work, but less overtly). One of the main points of his work was to simply become the personification of evil in the viewpoint of all who listened to him. Definitely not something to value. Here's another song from that album that more accurately summarizes what he valued (the answer is: nothing): Marilyn Manson - 1996 anti choice anti girl I am the anti flag unfurled anti white and anti man I got the anti future plan anti fascist anti mod I am the anti music god anti sober anti whore there will never be enough of anti more I can't believe in the things that don't believe in me now it's your turn to see misanthropy anti people now you've gone too far here's your antichrist superstar anti money anti hate anti things I fucked and ate anti cop anti fun here is my anti-president gun anti Satan anti black anti world is on my back anti gay and anti dope I am the faggot anti-pope (bridge) (chorus) anti peace anti life anti husband, anti wife anti song and anti me I don't deserve a chance to be (chorus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammon Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 The Beautiful People is more about hypocrisy in my opinion. Sit it in a Baptist Church for awhile and you'll see what he's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordr Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 The Beautiful People is more about hypocrisy in my opinion. Sit it in a Baptist Church for awhile and you'll see what he's talking about. I think I agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Okay, he's pointing out contradictions in the philosophies of others, which I enjoy, but what does he offer to fill in the vacuum? Is he saying it's all hopeless and worthless? That's the impression I get. I mean, being negative and unhappy is easy. Happiness, otoh, is something you have to work to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordr Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Okay, he's pointing out contradictions in the philosophies of others, which I enjoy, but what does he offer to fill in the vacuum? Is he saying it's all hopeless and worthless? That's the impression I get. I mean, being negative and unhappy is easy. Happiness, otoh, is something you have to work to achieve. He offers nothing, lol. Hedonism, maybe, but nothing good. He was very nice when I met him a few years ago, though. That probably means something . Edited February 1, 2009 by Ordr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rearden_Steel Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) I was under the impression that the whole album Antichrist superstar was a three part story line. I forget exactly what the story was about but each song represents the evolution of the “worm” as he calls him into a figure of power. While at the same time each of the songs has personal meaning to Manson himself. Edited February 1, 2009 by Rearden_Steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordr Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) I was under the impression that the whole album Antichrist super stare was a three part story line. I forget exactly what the story was about but each song represents the evolution of the “worm” as he calls him into a figure of power. While at the same time each of the songs has personal meaning to Manson himself. Yeah, it's the rise from a "worm" to a (antichrist) superstar who is eventually killed by those who claimed to love him. The theme that begins and ends the album is "When you are suffering, know that I have betrayed you". It's pretty vague but nonetheless interesting. Edited February 1, 2009 by Ordr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberTodd Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Meh, he was never really interesting to me. If I wanted shock value I'd just listen to Gorgoroth or something, they at least have some somewhat pro-life (or at least anti-anti-life ) lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagroht Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 well, for all his faults...he did spill these lines: "and I'm not a slave to a god that doesn't exist and I'm not a slave to a world that doesn't give a shit" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordr Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 well, for all his faults...he did spill these lines: "and I'm not a slave to a god that doesn't exist and I'm not a slave to a world that doesn't give a shit" That whole album was exceptionally good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.