Axiomatic Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) As an independent student I've had a rough time with finances and have had to borrow funds from the University to support myself through the first of this years semester. Today I had a conversation with the Director of Finance about paying back the funds. He told me that in actuality I did not borrow any funds due to my financial position, and that the loans given to me have been nullified and now take the form of a Government Grant that I do not have to pay back. He, with his 'compassionate smile, was suprised at how angry I became at the prospect of not having to pay back the funds and could not understand why I did not accept the generosity given to me by the 'State' (without my permission). My question is, how if they do not accept it back in the future, am I supposed to pay back the money that my Government has stolen from tax payers and given to me as a 'Grant'? I do have a couple of options in this regard. I have paid tax in the summer and have applied to claim it back. I could in all honesty just put that check in the bin and consider it as payment of the debt I rightly incurred to the University under the assumption that it would be paid back. This however would leave me in a precarious situation financially as I did not intent to pay back the University the amount incurred for a while, as it was agreed. From now my Government have decided that it is in my best interest on not to 'loan' me money, but give it as a 'benficiant' bersery considering my financial status. I do not want to be a moocher! My other option is to write a letter to my governing body explaining my ethics regarding financial assitance and why I wish to pay them back, but I don't hold out any hope of persuading the irrational to understand my viewpoint. Any advice? Edited February 2, 2009 by Axiomatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well, part of it is mine, so you can send me a check! Seriously though, you'll be paying enough taxes through your life. The rules on how much you will have to pay have no logical underpinning. They're based on various social-engineering ideas. For instance, suppose you buy a house and pay interest on the mortgage. You will be allowed to deduct that interest when calculating your taxable income. Will you refuse to do so? I assume not. Suppose you have 2 kids; you might be allowed to take a tax-credit for each of them. I assume you'll follow those rules too. I would simply treat this as one such rule. Remember, the way the system is designed, each of us can feel stolen from, and yet each of us can feel the guilt of a moocher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axiomatic Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 This is true, thanks softwareNerd. I'm just very angry at the whole thing, the looting bastards usurping my contract and all. It really has got me fired up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 My question is, how if they do not accept it back in the future, am I supposed to pay back the money that my Government has stolen from tax payers and given to me as a 'Grant'?Your problem is identifying which specific individuals had their wealth taken from them and given to you. Because tax dollars can't be traced (you can't know which dollar in the central pot comes from who), this is permanently lost information. In fact you need to verify that the money is from taxation, which is not guaranteed. This is where you need to look at specific program-names. An example is a Pell Grant, which is tax-supported by the federal government. Some support-boons are from university funds, and some are from state taxes. So if it is a Pell Grant, the source is "federal taxpayers". The goal here, I thing would be (or should be) to return the money to the rightful owner. Simply refusing to accept the money would not restore the victims of taxation to their whole (or better) state. From a practical point of view, you could return the money to some taxpayer who you believe has paid at least that amount in taxes. I would be happy to serve as the recipient of some restored income. I imagine others here would be willing to help you out. You cannot expect there to be a rational solution to irrational actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axiomatic Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Haha, I'm from the UK, so none of you American swine will get a penny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Relax, buddy, judging from your post you'll soon enough be one of those taxpayers who pay way more into the system than they ever see back. As far as voluntarily giving the money back to the government (whether through burning some tax-return check or any other way), don't you dare do that: it will never end up back to their rightful owners anyway, and in the long run you would be passing up an opportunity to get away with giving up less to the Welfare State than others. The best solution to your predicament is to get to work as soon as possible, and earn enough until you end up paying that money back in the form of coerced taxation anyway. That way you'll be glad that you're not actually being raped, so for those few months until the money you owe is taken back, you'll actually be a completely free man, who is working entirely for himself. That's something very few people get to experience in the UK, even for a short time. Or, if you must be hasty and an egomaniac(though that's not really a bad thing) about it, instead of burning the check find someone who payed more taxes than he got back in services (pretty much any older relative or friend with a good job), and just give it to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Haha, I'm from the UK, so none of you American swine will get a penny! Pence, you mean. Anyhow, I spent 6 months over there and contributed to the local economy, so actually I'm owed. I take cash, checks or Paypal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 [...]so actually I'm owed[...] How much, do you reckon? I have worked with enforcing debts so maybe we can make a mutualy benficial deal here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 How much, do you reckon?Good question. I also forgot about a royalties ding that I get which is probably accumulated $250; then maybe $2500 given council tax and VAT. We can negotiate a recovery fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Good question. I also forgot about a royalties ding that I get which is probably accumulated $250; then maybe $2500 given council tax and VAT. We can negotiate a recovery fee. I think 20% would cover the expenses and leave room for a small profit. Let me add that I have worked for the swedish government, so you can be sure i'm the best of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noumenalself Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Run, don't walk, to your closest bookstore and pick up a copy of Ayn Rand's *The Voice of Reason.* There you'll find an article called "The Question of Scholarships." Reading it, you'll find that you are dropping the context of the principle that forbids taking the unearned. That's a principle that applies only to those who are not already operating under force. When you take government grants and scholarships, you are justly compensating yourself for the taxes that have already been expropriated from either you or your parents, or for those that will be in the future. This consideration of context does not justify taking anything, only what is necessary to accomplish the goals you would have pursued in the absence of government force. So if you take it for a legitimate purpose, especially in a market you would otherwise not be able to enter on account of government-inflated tuition, you are justified. The proviso is that you commit yourself to fighting the very system that made this necessary, but standing up for laissez-faire capitalism. Please read the AR article above; I often wish I'd read it before I made a rationalistic decision to drop out of a good school for similar reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammon Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Just take the money. When your in college you need all the help you can get. They give away so much money because they know they are going to get it back from you, voluntarily or not. I don't consider it mooching. Plus, even if I was wealthy and paid millions in taxes I'd rather my taxes go to sending guys like you and I through college then sending bums to liquor stores or single-mothers to the bread line. That doesn't mean I like it or think it's right, obviously. But, we can try to scrap by with some value actually created here, or a higher chance of that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W.C.Meyer Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 As long as you're not espousing the sort of ideas that allowed for this unsolicited act of altruism; take the money and run. Don't make yourself a martyr just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axiomatic Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Don't make yourself a martyr just yet. Never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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