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Is My Mother Evil?

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cliveandrews

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My mother is one of the most irrational people I've ever known. She is not very intelligent to begin with, but beyond merely lacking intellect, she has recieved nothing but intellectual poison throughout her life and unfortunately assimilated most of it. She is sincerely well-intentioned, but is intellectually disordered to the degree that she is simply incapable of doing anythng right. She has utterly destroyed my brothers' life as a result of her relentless coddling; he is now 24 years old, has the mentality of an adolescent and is completely helpless as a result of having learned to rely on his mother for everything throughout his life. I have explained her errors to her innumerable times over the years, and she acknolwedges that what I say is correct, but she seems to be absolutely incapable of modifying her behavior. The result is that my brother is now so maladjusted that I don't believe he'll ever be able to lead a normal life, and will proabably end up committing suicide when his parents die in a few years and he finds himself incapable of surviving on his own merit. She believes that her son has intrinsic value even though he is a totally worthless parasite who produces nothing and does nothng except smoke cigarrettes and methamphetamine (which habit his mother subsidizes unwittingly) and play childish video games all day. She shields him from the consequences of his lifestyle by never punishing him for anything and always defending him arbitrarily. When I inform her that she has raised a worthless son, she shrieks in horror and persecutes me for telling her the truth about her son, her husband, and herself. Based on her reactions I think she knows on some level that what I say is correct, but blocks it out because the truth is too painful for her to bear. She engages in the willful denial of reality and relies on psychiatric drugs to obliterate her senses and avoid experiencing the proper emotional consequences of her actions. She is not aware of how irrational her behavior is, She simply wallows through life in an ignorant stupor and appears to be incapable of doing anything else. It is truly sad.

Is my mother evil, or is there any moral absolution in the fact that she basically a babbling, retarded blob of fat who simply doesn't know any better? She loves me to death and has done a lot of things for me that I should be appreciative of, and it causes me a great deal of stress that I despise her so much. And I am disgusted with my family to the degree that I often think about changing my name just to spite them publically.

Edited by cliveandrews
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Sounds like she's not that great. I don't see how she is responsible for a 24 y.o.'s drug addiction (since I believe we are all responsible for who we are, but cannot be responsible for who anyone else is.), but it's nevertheless stupid to put up with him. Not that unusual, but stupid. She should throw him out, and that would be that.

I'm confused though: why is any of this your problem? Do you live in her house?

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You tell me...

she has recieved nothing but intellectual poison throughout her life

She is sincerely well-intentioned, but is intellectually disordered to the degree that she is simply incapable of doing anythng right.

she acknolwedges that what I say is correct, but she seems to be absolutely incapable of modifying her behavior.

I think she knows on some level that what I say is correct, but blocks it out because the truth is too painful for her to bear.

She simply wallows through life in an ignorant stupor and appears to be incapable of doing anything else.

She loves me to death and has done a lot of things for me that I should be appreciative of
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Are you asking if we know any specific facts about her that you aren't telling us, which might mitigate the picture that you've painted? At what point does one judge a person as evil? There is a popular extreme whereby people deny that there is such a thing as evil, except maybe in extreme cases like Hitler or Idi Amin. The evil of evasion is an evil, and leads to these other behaviors that you describe.

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Sounds like she's not that great. I don't see how she is responsible for a 24 y.o.'s drug addiction (since I believe we are all responsible for who we are, but cannot be responsible for who anyone else is.), but it's nevertheless stupid to put up with him. Not that unusual, but stupid. She should throw him out, and that would be that.

I'm confused though: why is any of this your problem? Do you live in her house?

She's responsible for his drug addition because she enabled him, gave him money whenever he demanded it knowing fully well that he was a meth addict. She claims that he manipulated her into giving her the money, and that's probably true, but it's still a massive failing on her part because it should have been utterly obvious to any reasonable person that he did not need $40 a day to spend at McDonald's.

Edited by cliveandrews
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She's responsible for his drug addition because she enabled him, gave him money whenever he demanded it knowing fully well that he was a meth addict. She claims that he manipulated her into giving her the money, and that's probably true, but it's still a massive failing on her part because it should have been utterly obvious to any reasonable person that he did not need $40 a day to spend at McDonald's.

You aren't my friend Larry from Arlington, VA, are you?

Listen - there is only one thing you can do here, rationally. You cannot change your mother. You cannot change your brother. You cannot make either of them choose to see reality. Unless one or both of them is willing, you gain nothing in trying.

Each person is responsible for themselves, ultimately. Sure, she may have failed in her upbringing of him, but you know - she brought you up too. You two turned out differently. That's because you're each different people, and ultimately, responsible for your own selves. Your mother's responsibility for how your brother turned out is limited, and her responsibility for how he chooses to be now doesn't exist. Sure, she enables him - but he seeks enabling too. Her responsibility stops at his skin now.

The best thing you can do is choose not to participate in their self destruction, at least until such time as they come to you for help, at which time, you can choose to help them on YOUR terms, or not.

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She's responsible for his drug addition because she enabled him, gave him money whenever he demanded it knowing fully well that he was a meth addict. She claims that he manipulated her into giving her the money, and that's probably true, but it's still a massive failing on her part because it should have been utterly obvious to any reasonable person that he did not need $40 a day to spend at McDonald's.

I disagree. I believe , strongly, in free will. That is why there is no way for me to ever believe you when saying that any person is responsible for any other person's character, decisions, voluntary actions, drug habits or any other attribute hinging on personal choices.

While parents are in the unique position to have some responsibility toward their children, that responsibility most definitely stops at the age of adulthood, and ultimately, they cannot be responsible for how they end up, because at no point do they have access to their children's consciousness. How one ends up is ultimately dependent only on one person's decisions, themselves.

Nothing, from what you've said, makes her responsible for your brother's condition. Unless you tell me the story of some horrible abuse, by which she prevented him from thinking and making decisions during his childhood (and for some reason allowed you to do), I will maintain my opinion on who's the only person responsible for your brother's life.

Here's the advice an extremely smart person gave to his fellow top 1% members of the human race:

"The big reason why many of us view ourselves as victims is because of our mothers. If my moter had just been different, and my dad had just been different, I'd be great, right?

Ah, interesting thing that you all know, that most of you are denying though , is that at least at the level of consciousness, we are all alone. Sorry. At least at the level of consciousness, we are all alone.

Therefor, only you can be resonsible for you. It's not possible for anybody else to be responsible for you.

The flip of that's also true. Classic parental error, classic managerial error: you cannot be responsible for your children. You are only responsible to teach them to be responsible for themselves. ...(goes on to apply this to management)..."

John Allison ( former CEO, current chairman BB&T), speaking to a group of young industry leaders at a leadership conference.

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I'm curious why you would ask strangers such a complex philosophical and psychological question. I assume no one here knows your mother. By what means should anyone decide whether she is evil if you yourself can't seem to decide. Is there any reason you're asking strangers as opposed to your own mind?

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I'm curious why you would ask strangers such a complex philosophical and psychological question.

Insecurity.

Is there any reason you're asking strangers as opposed to your own mind?

Yes, in fact there is. He's asking because he wants someone to confirm his estimation of his mother.

So called Objectivists who have a complaint against the world do not help the movement gain academic respectability (much less acceptability).

Edited by adrock3215
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I'm curious why you would ask strangers such a complex philosophical and psychological question. I assume no one here knows your mother. By what means should anyone decide whether she is evil if you yourself can't seem to decide. Is there any reason you're asking strangers as opposed to your own mind?

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking this question. We check our premises and thinking all the time with our friends. (I assume he doesn't wish to bring his mother up to his friends, that's why he's asking us)

I do think he is wrong though, in two repects:

1. to consider his mother responsible for his brother's life

2. to feel the need to be concerned of, or involved with his mother (whom he thinks is a bad person-I have no reason to doubt that she is), or his brother (who is a bad person, judging by what I've read). What possible value could any of these two people have to offer? I certainly haven't seen anything mentioned.

adrock: So called Objectivists who have a complaint against the world do not help the movement gain academic respectability (much less acceptability).

Sounds like a complaint against the world to me. (If only those bad Objectivists would get out of the way of my good Objectivist ideas, reaching for the academic world! )

Edited by Jake_Ellison
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I'm curious why you would ask strangers such a complex philosophical and psychological question. I assume no one here knows your mother. By what means should anyone decide whether she is evil if you yourself can't seem to decide. Is there any reason you're asking strangers as opposed to your own mind?

The issue of strangeness is negated by the fact that we are all Objectivists, and I assumed that the purpose of this board is to discuss complex philosophical and psychological issues. I don't know the answer to the question, so I'm asking.

Edited by cliveandrews
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It escapes me how strangers are supposed to make a diagnosis of evil when the one person who knows the person in question is unable or unwilling to do so. I can only assume he expects others to do his thinking for him. Not my style.

I am a new objectivist and not yet as philosophically knowledgable as many of the posters here. Rightly or wrongly, I thought that it might be possible for a more advanced Objectivist to make a judgement of evil based on fairly detailed description of how my mother lives her ilfe. I would only be asking others to think for me if I accepted their opinions arbitrarily. So far I disagree with most of the responses in this thread, so I'm certainly not blindly capitulating to others. By your logic, why ask any philosophical questions at all if doing so is equivalent to expecting others to do your thinking for you?

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I didn't read insecurity nor a desire to lean on the opinions of others, in the original post. The way I read his question, it was more about:

Clearly, the OP has already made various negative evaluations about his mother. So, he isn't really asking people to make those for him. He seems to have little doubt that his mother does not exemplify Objectivist virtues. Since he's said he is sympathetic to Objectivism, it follows that he clearly evaluates many of his mother's acts as "non good" (at the very least).

The questions that arise, though, are:

  • are non-good acts evil?
  • is a person who commits evil acts evil?

For example, we would agree that religion is non-good, because it goes against rationality. We also know that religion can be pretty evil. Yet, consider someone who is only mildly religious: are their actions (to that extent) evil? If the act is evil, does that make them evil people? If not, then how many such act must they do, of what severity or scope, before we can think of them as evil people?

This type of question about judging a person as opposed to judging their acts is actually pretty common on Objectivist forums.

I do think there's a problem with presenting the example in the way the OP did, though. Sometimes, concretes can hinder rather than help a discussion, because people think they're being asked to make a judgment about the concrete.

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The issue of strangeness is negated by the fact that we are all Objectivists, and I assumed that the purpose of this board is to discuss complex philosophical and psychological issues. I don't know the answer to the question, so I'm asking.

No, because the way you posed the question about a specific individual (your mother) the strangeness cannot be negated. No one here knows your mother. She is not a philosophical or psychological issue, she is a specific individual, a proper noun, a concrete. It is up to you to decide which conclusion about philosophical or psychological issues may apply to your mother.

I agree with softwareNerd's post.

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I think the only evil thing she does, from everything you stated, is:

When I inform her that she has raised a worthless son, she shrieks in horror and persecutes me for telling her the truth about her son, her husband, and herself. Based on her reactions I think she knows on some level that what I say is correct, but blocks it out because the truth is too painful for her to bear.

This one IS an act of evil. Because it is the only one that involves her choice. The rest, of trying to avoid pain by using psychiatric drugs, or absorbing intellectual poison, are not bad by themselves.

You also need to take under account that her defense mechanisms become increasingly automatic the more years go by. So if at first, she had more control over shutting down her mind as a reaction to some truth - now it's probably more automatic - though it *always* involves her choice to some degree.

Whether or not she is evil, I think you owe it to yourself and to your happiness to separate your life from theirs. At some point you have to realize, that if someone you value is beyond your help, you need to be able to let it go, and to move on. Not to let pity drag you down. Sticking around to watch spiritual death can only bring your own life down in agony. No amount of gratitude and gratefulness you feel for your mom can justify that.

Perhaps, if you still think there is some hope, you can try finding your mom/brother a good Objectivist psychologist. But even with that make sure to keep your distance from them. Not to see them or talk to them.

Also, you need to realize that by acting like this you actually help your mom. Sticking around, talking to her, reassures her in a way. But if you leave her, it might raise an alarm. It will remind her that things are NOT alright. That the way she lives *should* be changed. In contrast, if you act on your pity, and try to spare her pain, you will help perpetuate her destruction.

If she has a chance at all, facing the truth is the only way to go about solving things.

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People are not pure good or pure evil. Your mom exhibits some irrational behaviors and she has also done good things for you. This is why you can't just pronounce a verdict of "evil" and walk away.

This does not mean people (like your mom) are gray moral mush. People have distinct bad and good parts. Ayn said, essentially, you have to work with the good and distance yourself from the bad. Others have pointed out you can't control your mother or your brother, only yourself. The fact that you became a responsible person in the same environment that fostered your brother is a credit to your independence.

The objectivist solution would be to enjoy your relationship with your mother for what it is. You do not have to approve of your brother's choices or your mother's treatment of him. Once you have voiced your moral disapproval - and you were right to do so - further objections will not be productive. You might want to meet your mother in neutral locations so you don't have the antagonism of your brother nearby.

Your mother is only evil to the extent that she evades reality and embraces irrationality.

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