ctrl y Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I was wondering if anyone knows what the job market looks like in philosophy. Philosophy is notorious for churning out grad students who go on to work at McDonalds, of course, and it would make sense for ANY job market to be bad with the economy like this. On top of that, I have read a couple of articles saying that the humanities in general are not a good place to go right now, career-wise. Anyway, I was wondering if any posters here have additional data, positive or negative. Analysis is also welcome, but preferably only from people with appropriate qualifications. Edited February 16, 2009 by ctrl y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tito Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I strongly believe the reputation of arts and humanities to churn out blue-collar workers is a reflection on the way they are taught and the people going through them. Lots of idiots go into university, lots of idiots come out. If you're a halfwit who's managed to memorise some bullet-point style ideas and string them together in an essay to get a philosophy degree, then you aren't going to get a good job. If you are competent and profitable, you could probably get into any business with any degree (except, of course, specialist fields like medicine and law) - even if it means you have to prove yourself via internship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrl y Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I strongly believe the reputation of arts and humanities to churn out blue-collar workers is a reflection on the way they are taught and the people going through them. Lots of idiots go into university, lots of idiots come out. If you're a halfwit who's managed to memorise some bullet-point style ideas and string them together in an essay to get a philosophy degree, then you aren't going to get a good job. Much as I would like to believe that, I doubt it. Graduate programs are, I assume, rather intense. Anyone who gets a Ph.D. works their rear end off for years and years in that environment, then has to present a thesis in which they make a substantive contribution to modern philosophy. I simply don't believe that idiots could survive that. If Ph.D.s are having trouble finding jobs, we can safely say that it is not due to stupidity or sloth. If you are competent and profitable, you could probably get into any business with any degree (except, of course, specialist fields like medicine and law) - even if it means you have to prove yourself via internship. Makes sense, and for fields like business that is probably true. But there are also fields like painting or freelance writing, in which you essentially have to strike it lucky to get a good, meaningful career, and if you don't, then your life will not be fun. What I'm saying is philosophy might be one of *those* fields. And the evidence I've come across seems to indicate that it is. E.g., one article told horror stories about people being lucky to find jobs at community colleges. What I'm saying is I'm looking for concrete data or expert analysis to give me a better bird's-eye view of the field. Edited February 16, 2009 by ctrl y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrock3215 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I was wondering if anyone knows what the job market looks like in philosophy. Philosophy is notorious for churning out grad students who go on to work at McDonalds, of course, and it would make sense for ANY job market to be bad with the economy like this. On top of that, I have read a couple of articles saying that the humanities in general are not a good place to go right now, career-wise. Anyway, I was wondering if any posters here have additional data, positive or negative. Analysis is also welcome, but preferably only from people with appropriate qualifications. First of all, what's wrong with working at McDonald's? Your second sentence contains an implicit premise that working at McDonald's is an illegitimate career. The Humanities offer an infinite amount of career paths. It's a matter of what you want to do. For instance, if you look at Harvard and U. Penn's MBA programs (the top two business schools in the country), over 40% of accepted entrants have an undergraduate degree in the humanities. That means that many white collar workers and executives in this country come from the Humanities. Tito's statement that most Humanities majors are blue collar workers is completely unfounded and purely speculative. If you want to study Philosophy, you should go do it, and you should begin immediately. Who cares what the job market looks like? If studying Philosophy gives you great joy, you should do it. Money is a non-issue when you're intelligent and happy in your life; by which I mean, you will easily earn it. Edited February 16, 2009 by adrock3215 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas51184 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Are you in high school? College? A grad student? The job market NOW might not be great. But what will it be like when you have your PhD? I just started grad school. Optimistically, I won't be looking for a job for 6 years (most likely more). So it's not a big concern to me that the economy sucks today. Will it suck in 6 or 7 years? If the economy is on the rebound then, I might come on the market at a time when hiring is spiking. It also depends where you got your degree. A PhD from Princeton or any top 5 program will get you a good job no matter what the market is like. Even people from lower ranked programs get good jobs in tough markets. IF they do good work. IF you think you can get into a competative program and IF you think you are capable of good work, then go for it. You might not get a job at a top university, but you won't be flipping burgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrl y Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 First of all, what's wrong with working at McDonald's? Your second sentence contains an implicit premise that working at McDonald's is an illegitimate career. The Humanities offer an infinite amount of career paths. It's a matter of what you want to do. For instance, if you look at Harvard and U. Penn's MBA programs (the top two business schools in the country), over 40% of accepted entrants have an undergraduate degree in the humanities. That means that many white collar workers and executives in this country come from the Humanities. Tito's statement that most Humanities majors are blue collar workers is completely unfounded and purely speculative. If you want to study Philosophy, you should go do it, and you should begin immediately. Who cares what the job market looks like? If studying Philosophy gives you great joy, you should do it. Money is a non-issue when you're intelligent and happy in your life; by which I mean, you will easily earn it. Agreed. This thread is not about majoring in philosophy or studying it on the side, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tito Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Much as I would like to believe that, I doubt it. Graduate programs are, I assume, rather intense. Anyone who gets a Ph.D. works their rear end off for years and years in that environment, then has to present a thesis in which they make a substantive contribution to modern philosophy. I simply don't believe that idiots could survive that. If Ph.D.s are having trouble finding jobs, we can safely say that it is not due to stupidity or sloth. Makes sense, and for fields like business that is probably true. But there are also fields like painting or freelance writing, in which you essentially have to strike it lucky to get a good, meaningful career, and if you don't, then your life will not be fun. What I'm saying is philosophy might be one of *those* fields. And the evidence I've come across seems to indicate that it is. E.g., one article told horror stories about people being lucky to find jobs at community colleges. What I'm saying is I'm looking for concrete data or expert analysis to give me a better bird's-eye view of the field. Who mentioned Ph.D.s? I have never been served in McDonalds by someone with Dr. on their name badge. You don't have to strike it lucky to make money in creative pursuits, you have to make something that people are willing to pay for. Luck doesn't really come into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I was wondering if anyone knows what the job market looks like in philosophy.Not really, but here is information on jobs. There are more jobs open than I would have expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noumenalself Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I was wondering if anyone knows what the job market looks like in philosophy. Philosophy is notorious for churning out grad students who go on to work at McDonalds, of course, and it would make sense for ANY job market to be bad with the economy like this. On top of that, I have read a couple of articles saying that the humanities in general are not a good place to go right now, career-wise. Anyway, I was wondering if any posters here have additional data, positive or negative. Analysis is also welcome, but preferably only from people with appropriate qualifications. http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/01/2009013001c.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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