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Asking for Help in the Worst Place Possible

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W.C.Meyer
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I was torn about doing this; why ask for help on an Objectivist forum? But then I was thinking about the nature of altruism, and helping me here would not only help to support someone financially while attending university, but requires no sacrifice (save a minute or two of your time).

Anyways, I've made a video for a contest offering a cash prize of $5,000 to the video with the most hits. The topic: credit unions. Perhaps it's a dispicable topic, but I'm hard up for cash, and that $5,000 would pay for around a years worth of rent while I persue my degrees in music composition/double-bass performance.

Take it as you will; I hope I don't get a warning. Here's a link for those of you feeling a little altruistic :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0skwNkuhX2U

Thanks to anyone who takes the time.

-WC

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I was torn about doing this; why ask for help on an Objectivist forum? But then I was thinking about the nature of altruism, and helping me here would not only help to support someone financially while attending university, but requires no sacrifice (a minute or two of your time).

I wouldn't have been torn for having a personal profit motive in getting people to click on a video of mine, in your situation. I would have stated, first, that I made the video, second, why the content is worth watching, and then third state openly that you had additional desire for clicks purely because it could get you some cash and wont cost us anything except a minute (well, 3m22s to be precise). Anyway, duly watched - I clicked twice, for good measure.

The topic: credit unions. Perhaps it's a dispicable topic

The topic isn't inherently despicable. To the extent that moral fault does exist, it lies with culture and law, not the premise behind credit unions themselves . There is nothing in moral principles, economic principles or sound general financial practice that states that a bank can't be a small community-focussed affair - there are some profitable-niche virtues in being small and oriented towards the local community in which the small-time themselves investors live.

In an ideal world, rather than messing about with the false-dichotomy of non-profit small credit unions et al versus for-profit corporate banks, if some people want a community-oriented bank but still profit from it they can do so by buying OTC shares a small unlisted banking corporation headquartered locally, or locally-tradable OTC units in a small unit-trust with a known and respected community figure as trustee, or be partners (either LL or UL) in a partnership, and so on. Bad law stands in the way of that, and credit unions et al exist in an attempt to fill the void.

This isn't material that most people would be interested in exploring in detail, but I do think many people would be interested at a more introductory level in what their banking options could be in a free world. In a simple contest video like this, I'd say that credit unions have their good side and bad side, that in a free world the good side of credit unions could be blended with the good side of banks, and customers could choose between them and regular banks as they judged fit. All up, maybe 5-10 minutes?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time.

Y'welcome.

JJM

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Link works fine.

The video, however, is likely to turn off quite a few people, because it comes across as rather condescending at the beginning, both with the "if you're smart you'll chose a credit union" (implying that anyone in a bank is *not* smart), and the troll sounding voice when asking "what is a credit union?" which implicitly insults anyone who doesn't know what a credit union is.

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Also, saying that crdeit unions are better because there is no profit motive is anti-Capitalist propaganda. I think it's dishonorable that you asked us to support you with that, knowing full well how we feel about it.

Obviously, it's not a big deal, but an opportunity to learn something about morality.

Have you heard of something called the trader principle? Perhaps you should read up on that before going starting out in the world with a pragmatist and selfish attitude which you mistakenly think is just as good as Ayn Rand's principled selfish morality.

The trader principle means that businessmen (and regular people), seek to only enter into mutually beneficial deals, for reasons that are absolutely selfish and rational, in the long term. What exactly is our profit in watching this video, which attacks something we believe in so strongly: the profit motive ?

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Also, saying that crdeit unions are better because there is no profit motive is anti-Capitalist propaganda. I think it's dishonorable that you asked us to support you with that, knowing full well how we feel about it.

Now that you mention it, it's also false. Credit Unions do have a profit motive. As a member of a Credit Union, I benefit from the profit the credit union makes - my money earns interest there.

*I* am the investor in my credit union. (Of course, at the moment my fellow investors are making the money I pay them because they own my house right now, but that will change! :dough: )

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Also, saying that crdeit unions are better because there is no profit motive is anti-Capitalist propaganda. I think it's dishonorable that you asked us to support you with that, knowing full well how we feel about it.

Obviously, it's not a big deal, but an opportunity to learn something about morality.

Have you heard of something called the trader principle? Perhaps you should read up on that before going starting out in the world with a pragmatist and selfish attitude which you mistakenly think is just as good as Ayn Rand's principled selfish morality.

The trader principle means that businessmen (and regular people), seek to only enter into mutually beneficial deals, for reasons that are absolutely selfish and rational, in the long term. What exactly is our profit in watching this video, which attacks something we believe in so strongly: the profit motive ?

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Don't assume that anything stated in that video is a reflection of my beliefs; I need the money, and it's that simple. I posted it here to get the views, not to run over the contents of C:UI.

I can understand the pragmatist statement (though, I will have to disagree), and I was torn about putting it on here. At the end of the day, however: I'm willing to look like a pragmatist for three and a half minutes if it means making it through university (granted, I could make it through somehow, and I have been; but it's getting more and more difficult to work my through college).

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Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Don't assume that anything stated in that video is a reflection of my beliefs; I need the money, and it's that simple.

You made the video, right?

So what should we assume? That you believe as the video states, and you are simply mistaken, or that you do not believe what you said in the video, and are dishonest?

Better to be ignorant than immoral. Ignorance is easily curable with education.

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Also, saying that crdeit unions are better because there is no profit motive is anti-Capitalist propaganda. I think it's dishonorable that you asked us to support you with that, knowing full well how we feel about it.

Obviously, it's not a big deal, but an opportunity to learn something about morality.

Have you heard of something called the trader principle? Perhaps you should read up on that before going starting out in the world with a pragmatist and selfish attitude which you mistakenly think is just as good as Ayn Rand's principled selfish morality.

The trader principle means that businessmen (and regular people), seek to only enter into mutually beneficial deals, for reasons that are absolutely selfish and rational, in the long term. What exactly is our profit in watching this video, which attacks something we believe in so strongly: the profit motive ?

I don't remember saying that; I remember saying that you get higher returns on investment accounts. In fact, I don't know of any anti-capitalist statement in that video. Point my anti-capitalist comments out to me, and I will apologize for my partaking in the contest.

Don't state things that aren't your belief.

I actually wish to retract my former statement, as there is no content in that video that would discredit me or any beliefs I may hold. Point out the bad philosophy in the video if you will.

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Anyone? I would appreciate clarification as to what in that video was anti-Capitalist and contradictory to Objectist ideals, so as to correct such mistakes and not allow them to happen in the future.

The reason I'm not doing it is because I think it's pointless. It's not realistic to try and teach Objectivism on a forum. Read Atlas Shrugged and The Virtue of Selfishness first, then you can join the conversation on our interpretation of it.

Even then it's mostly just for fun, there's very little you can actually learn on an open forum where good ideas are mixed in with bad ones. How would a student know which are the good ideas? Not exactly an ideal place for learning.

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The reason I'm not doing it is because I think it's pointless. It's not realistic to try and teach Objectivism on a forum. Read Atlas Shrugged and The Virtue of Selfishness first, then you can join the conversation on our interpretation of it.

Even then it's mostly just for fun, there's very little you can actually learn on an open forum where good ideas are mixed in with bad ones. How would a student know which are the good ideas? Not exactly an ideal place for learning.

This seems like a cop-out. I'm asking for you to clarify where your remarks about my ignorance and anti-capitalism are coming from.

*Edit for punctuation.

You made the video, right?

So what should we assume? That you believe as the video states, and you are simply mistaken, or that you do not believe what you said in the video, and are dishonest?

Better to be ignorant than immoral. Ignorance is easily curable with education.

According to Jake Ellison, this is no place for education.

Edited by W.C.Meyer
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Thanks to anyone who takes the time.

-WC

I liked your movie - quite funny and well done (considering the budget).

I'm going to try to get my credit union friends to watch it.

As far as anti-capitalist propaganda - hardly.

Look at some of the credit union ads on TV if you want examples of that.

You didn't say "credit unions want to help you - banks want to make a profit off you".

(Of course, the more a bank helps you, the more business they get and the more profit they make).

I suppose it's a little misleading to say that non-profit means lower interest on loans and higher returns on investments, but its not necessarily false; it depends on how it's done.

Good luck - I hope you win !

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I liked your movie - quite funny and well done (considering the budget).

I'm going to try to get my credit union friends to watch it.

As far as anti-capitalist propaganda - hardly.

Look at some of the credit union ads on TV if you want examples of that.

You didn't say "credit unions want to help you - banks want to make a profit off you".

(Of course, the more a bank helps you, the more business they get and the more profit they make).

I suppose it's a little misleading to say that non-profit means lower interest on loans and higher returns on investments, but its not necessarily false; it depends on how it's done.

Good luck - I hope you win !

Much thanks.

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