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I Am Running For District Council Member

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luciferchrist
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Well last night the district city council passed an immoral law against the will of it's constituents. My roomate obtained over 2000 signatures of Troy residents who opposed this law, and the council still passed it. The law was that all convience stores will close between the hours of 12 and 5 am. Meanwhile the gas stations and supermarkets can stay open all night. This law discriminates against the arab americans who operate these stores, many of whom I am friends with, and whom are working long, hard hours so they can bring their families to America. We live in country where the majority decides what's right for the majority. Despite my disagreement with such ideology, that is what this country was founded on, and how we are "supposed" to operate. Last night a group of 9 people decided what's right for over 7000 people. It has come to my attention that it only takes 800 votes for a city council member to win (on average) and the average voter is 36 years old. Young adults do not vote because they think their opinion doesn't matter. Well it is time to change that. My roomate, myself, and a third person will be running together. We are developing a new polling system where we go out and ask the normal Troy resident what they think is best when major decisions are being taken place. We will then make our decisions on what the people want, not what we want. I will go to my college (which is a community college), and create flyers that will target the students. I think this will get people to vote, as they will be seeing their peers in office making decisions for the majority as opposed to old rich fundamentalists making decisions for their political career. It is time to see political change, and I know we can easily win this election, despite being a 21 year old college student with know political experiance. These council members are incompetent. They lied about so many things last night. My roomate tried to contact them several times, and delivered copies of petitions to all their houses. They denied every recieving them. They also denied recieving her emails, which was funny because she didn't even bring up the fact that she sent them emails. A couple years ago at an open forum they all said they would not raise taxes if they were elected. Guess what...THEY RAISED TAXES! I have alot of ammunition against them, and I am thinking about crafting a carefully constructed straw man argument to really get people riled up against the way our city is being ran. I would love to hear campaign ideas from objectivists. Even though I disagree with some parts of the objectivist philosophy, I believe your political ideology is right on.

So I ask of you all, what do you suggest we do in regards to creative campaiging?

Thanks,

Jiah

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My roomate, myself, and a third person will be running together. We are developing a new polling system where we go out and ask the normal Troy resident what they think is best when major decisions are being taken place. We will then make our decisions on what the people want, not what we want.

That is exactly the wrong way to decide. A government should not do whatever the majority wants, it should do what is right----regardless of what the majority wants. In a capitalist society, that means one thing: defending individual rights.

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...

We are developing a new polling system where we go out and ask the normal Troy resident what they think is best when major decisions are being taken place. We will then make our decisions on what the people want, not what we want.

...

I think this will get people to vote, as they will be seeing their peers in office making decisions for the majority as opposed to old rich fundamentalists making decisions for their political career.

...

Even though I disagree with some parts of the objectivist philosophy, I believe your political ideology is right on. 

...

I am trying to understand what your political philosophy is. You seem, in the quote above, to be saying you want to establish direct democracy: What the majority of voters want is what the voters will get. There will be no elected representatives. Is that correct?

If so, your political philosophy is radically opposed to the politics of Objectivism, which rejects democracy as a form of dictatorship and seeks instead a free republic, one in which a written constitution protects the rights of all peaceful and honest individuals, and one in which elected representatives -- operating under a system of checks and balances -- make decisions, not "the people" directly.

Also, you mention "old rich fundamentalists making decisions for their political career." What do the age and wealth of politicians have to do with political issues?

If "fundamentalists" refers to monotheist religionists trying to force their personal morality onto others, I can understand your objection -- but not old or rich.

Until you have offered satisfactory answers to these questions, I will not share my campaign experience and insights with you. I do not want to sanction my opposition.

P. S. -- Please, in the future, break your message at the "joints" of your thoughts by inserting paragraph breaks for each topic.

P. S. 2 -- Which parts of Objectivism (not "objectivism") do you reject? Its metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics? They are the inseparable foundation of its politics.

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Even though I disagree with some parts of the objectivist philosophy, I believe your political ideology is right on. 

You don't understand the philosophy. You can't accept Objectivist 'political ideology' without accepting the philosophical prerequisites for that ideology. You sound like a Libertarian. You wont find any support here. People here would rather have you accept that objective reality exists, it is understandable through the use of reason, that an individual must be free to act on his own rational self interest in social system that recognizes and protects his rights.

There's a lot of ground to cover before you get to talking politics.

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I have alot of ground to cover before I start getting into politics?

So I should continue to let this draconian laws pass?

They plan on enacting these laws one by one until they close all the bars and clubs around here, impose a district wide curfew, and increase fines for all district wide violations.

Okay so I will sit by and let this continue and not do anything about it, happy?

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I have alot of ground to cover before I start getting into politics?

So I should continue to let this draconian laws pass?

They plan on enacting these laws one by one until they close all the bars and clubs around here, impose a district wide curfew, and increase fines for all district wide violations.

Okay so I will sit by and let this continue and not do anything about it, happy?

No one is telling you not to run for office. The message that is being conveyed to you is that no Objectivist will help you unless you're fighting the law for the right reasons and on the right grounds. As Burgess pointed out, you used the term 'rich' in a pejorative way. That reveals alot. Its highly probable that you don't have the slightest clue regarding the proper understanding and validation of man's rights which means, as I indicated, that you are probably a Libertarian and thus absolutely worthless in the fight for genuine liberty.

My suggestion: Spend a good year or two studying Objectivism. Then run for office. Trust me, there will be plenty of laws that are unjust. They're not going anywhere. They'll be waiting for you.

Study first.

Also, what's with the whole "LuciferChrist" thing? That's scarry in and of itself.

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I am trying to understand what your political philosophy is. You seem, in the quote above, to be saying you want to establish direct democracy: What the majority of voters want is what the voters will get. There will be no elected representatives. Is that correct?
I want a government whose sole duty is protect individual rights, and would not impose its elected representatives beliefs on the citizens. This would include not imposing my beliefs on the people. I would suggest my alternative, but if people decide it is not what they want I will not force them to live by my own standards and beliefs.

If so, your political philosophy is radically opposed to the politics of Objectivism, which rejects democracy as a form of dictatorship and seeks instead a free republic, one in which a written constitution protects the rights of all peaceful and honest individuals, and one in which elected representatives -- operating under a system of checks and balances -- make decisions, not "the people" directly.

Elected representatives in this district now, as well as the past, have failed to operate by the platforms that have gotten them elected. Years back the council members said they would not raise taxes, and they did anyways. Guess what’s going to happen if they continue making these laws that close stores? The stores will loose revenues, and thus the city will loose revenue forcing them to raise taxes even more. How is one to trust the elected representatives to do as they say? I certainly don’t, and the only solution I see is a direct democracy. If you have a better alternative, convince me. I am very open-minded and my beliefs change constantly as I come across new information that I feel is more on point than my current beliefs.

Also, you mention "old rich fundamentalists making decisions for their political career." What do the age and wealth of politicians have to do with political issues?

If "fundamentalists" refers to monotheist religionists trying to force their personal morality onto others, I can understand your objection -- but not old or rich.

I’m sorry; perhaps that was bad phrasing on my behalf. How about this: The average voter here is a white male in his late thirties. By the platforms elected representatives have gone by currently, and in the past, I have reasoned that they are fundamentalist. Maybe I should destroy the concept in my mind of the typical fundamentalist as being an older, and rich white male. The Council members do fit this profile however, as they are about 40, white, and live in very nice neighborhoods outside of Troy (my roommate visited all of their houses to deliver the petitions they claimed they never received.)

Until you have offered satisfactory answers to these questions, I will not share my campaign experience and insights with you. I do not want to sanction my opposition.
You will find I am a very open-minded person, and if someone convinces me my beliefs are wrong then my beliefs will change. I do not dismiss contradictory evidence to my beliefs. I observe and if I feel the new information is right, I replace the old information with it. At this point, I see no other way to create the connections I need down the road then to get the majority on my side. I know Objectivism is not Libertarianism, but most people do not separate the two. I do not see how such an approach will get me in the position I need to be in to do any good what so ever. If you still think I am wrong, fine, but I am a very ambitious person and I work my ass off to accomplish what I believe is right. Even if you do not help me and every person I seek ideas from looks me over as being a young, ignorant, inexperienced fool I will succeed. Even if I fail again and again I will not give up.

I can only see two ways to create a truly free society: 1.) Revolution, which I don’t think anyone here agrees with 2.) A gradual passage of laws (or dismissal of) that gradually eases the population into believing that a free-society can operate. Trying to push this into the public will only receive strong opposition from the media, government, and the masses. People need to gradually accept and believe such radical ideas. They will not accept an entirely new belief system over night. The government will not allow it. So the only possible answer I see is to start creating networks of like-minded people who can silently change the course the government is on.

P. S. -- Please, in the future, break your message at the "joints" of your thoughts by inserting paragraph breaks for each topic.

Will do

P. S. 2 -- Which parts of Objectivism (not "objectivism") do you reject? Its metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics? They are the inseparable foundation of its politics.

see my thread on emotions in the science section, which I still haven’t receive a satisfactory answer on.

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No one is telling you not to run for office. The message that is being conveyed to you is that no Objectivist will help you unless you're fighting the law for the right reasons and on the right grounds. As Burgess pointed out, you used the term 'rich' in a pejorative way. That reveals alot. Its highly probable that you don't have the slightest clue regarding the proper understanding and validation of man's rights which means, as I indicated, that you are probably a Libertarian and thus absolutely worthless in the fight for genuine liberty.

My suggestion: Spend a good year or two studying Objectivism. Then run for office. Trust me, there will be plenty of laws that are unjust. They're not going anywhere. They'll be waiting for you.

Study first.

Also, what's with the whole "LuciferChrist" thing? That's scarry in and of itself.

lol, now I see why you have the wrong impression of my use of the term "rich". I was using it to describe demographics. I admire people who have earned money, and I am disgusted in the progressive tax laws that wish to steal these people’s money and redistribute it to other groups. I will be in a position of wealth like that some day, which I will earn because I have disposed of a social life so I can spend all time studying and working. I was a looter years ago. I believed I was entitled to other people’s property, I sold drugs, and I dropped out of high school in 10th grade for a career as thief. I finally realized, as I was sitting in jail and my grandmother died, that my life was worthless. She believed in me so much, and I not only failed myself, I failed her. I will not let myself or another family member leave without seeing me do the best I possibly can. So I got my GED, took remedial courses in college until I got into college level courses. My worst subject in high school was math. I know have a 4.0 and I am getting my first degree in math and science, and I will go to school until I have a doctorate in neuroscience. I am the happiest I have ever been, even though I don't do drugs, get drunk, party, or make allot of money. I won't even steal a pen from my work as I believe my rich bosses are entitled to every last penny they have earned.

I am sorry if I am giving all of you the wrong impression here. As I have said in previous posts, my social skills are severely lacking due to my lack of interaction with people, that is another reason for my interest in politics at this point. It will force me to develop the skills I will need down the road when I have my own company, or I need to address research to many people. My interest in politics is more selfish then anything. I am not sorry for trying to pursue something people here don't agree with on reasons people here don't agree with.

I am not a libertarian. I am not affiliated with any political party.

I am studying objectivism. There are still things that need to be ironed out before I am entirely convinced, but the information here is quite useful. I have read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, what do you recommend I read next?

I read a paper a while ago where a marketer did research on what kind of words draw peoples curiosity. He found out that odd combinations that seem contradictory draw people’s interest the most, such as “healthy disease”. Hence, I came up with Luciferchrist. I think it looks rather interesting pairing the two together, don’t you think?

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That is exactly the wrong way to decide.  A government should not do whatever the majority wants, it should do what is right----regardless of what the majority wants.  In a capitalist society, that means one thing: defending individual rights.

you are right, but please convince me how this would be possible and how we could convince the masses this is right.

Does anyone here have any good links on Objectivist political ideology? I am starting to think me view of what Objectivists believe is warped, so I would appreciate a good primer.

Thanks

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I’m sorry; perhaps that was bad phrasing on my behalf. How about this: The average voter here is a white male in his late thirties. By the platforms elected representatives have gone by currently, and in the past, I have reasoned that they are fundamentalist. Maybe I should destroy the concept in my mind of the typical fundamentalist as being an older, and rich white male. The Council members do fit this profile however, as they are about 40, white, and live in very nice neighborhoods outside of Troy (my roommate visited all of their houses to deliver the petitions they claimed they never received.)

I still don't understand what being white and 40 has to do with being fundamentalist or anything for that matter. And what does it matter what neighborhoods they come from? Shouldn't you be focusing on ideas?

Fine, so middle aged white males passed some special interest legislation in your home town. What's new? It happens every day in the week. What does race and age have to do with it?

As for direct democracy. I suggest you read about a period in history known as the Peloponesian War; ie the war between Athens and Sparta 2400 years ago. Why? Well Jefferson said he learned more from reading about that war (in Thucydides) than he learned from ever reading the newspaper. The point of this is that you will learn about the perils and disasterous short comings of direct democracy. If you think things are unjust now, just wait untill you have an unrestrained mob of 'direct' voters. That will add excitement to your life.

Also, I imagine it would be very difficult for an ex-convict to become a politician. Perhaps you should spend a few years improving your record, so to speak.

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I still don't understand what being white and 40 has to do with being fundamentalist or anything for that matter. And what does it matter what neighborhoods they come from? Shouldn't you be focusing on ideas?

Fine, so middle aged white males passed some special interest legislation in your home town. What's new? It happens every day in the week. What does race and age have to do with it?

I am focusing on ideas, and their ideas appeal to their special interests groups, not what's right. You obviously see the connection, but you don't make a big deal out of it because you are accustomed to believing it has happened, and will continued to happen as the bolded line in your statement tells me. This is not my home town, I have actually lived in about 15 towns across the US, I have, however, been living here since I rearranged my life. The race and age are being used to show who the special interest group is in this case. So I would say it has everything to do with it. It is wrong, regardless of how long it has happened, and how long it will continue to happen, I want it stopped.

As for direct democracy. I suggest you read about a period in history known as the Peloponesian War; ie the war between Athens and Sparta 2400 years ago. Why? Well Jefferson said he learned more from reading about that war (in Thucydides) than he learned from ever reading the newspaper. The point of this is that you will learn about the perils and disasterous short comings of direct democracy. If you think things are unjust now, just wait untill you have an unrestrained mob of 'direct' voters. That will add excitement to your life.
I will read into this tonight, but I believe representatives have failed to do their jobs by representing the principles they are being elected on. I do not plan on neccesarily doing what the masses want in any case. Let's say they want to enact legislation that wants anyone residents who parks on the streets over night to pay a parking fee. Then being that this is immoral, I would not vote for it. So I suppose you are right, a direct democracy is not what I should do, but as a representative I should at least take into serious consideration what the people want. This is something the current representatives are not even doing. They made it clear to my roomates their minds were made up regardless of her petitions with 2000 signatures not to do it.

Also, I imagine it would be very difficult for an ex-convict to become a politician. Perhaps you should spend a few years improving your record, so to speak.

I have spent 4 years improving my record. I was released with youthfull offender status meaning my record is now clear. If my past is brought up I will, however, accept the consequences of my actions, not matter how misguided I was at the time.

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I am focusing on ideas, and their ideas appeal to their special interests groups, not what's right. You obviously see the connection, but you don't make a big deal out of it because you are accustomed to believing it has happened, and will continued to happen as the bolded line in your statement tells me.  This is not my home town, I have actually lived in about 15 towns across the US, I have, however, been living here since I rearranged my life. The race and age are being used to show who the special interest group is in this case. So I would say it has everything to do with it. It is wrong, regardless of how long it has happened, and how long it will continue to happen, I want it stopped.

You still don't get it. I was being facetious. The race and age of the people is an irrelevancy. If 22 year old black people passed special interest legislation it would be just as wrong. The legislation in this case is prompted by one group of businessmen trying to gain through government intrevention a greater market share than they would otherwise be able to enjoy. They are trying to limit competition. Its disgusting when businesmen do this, but they do it because governments wield that kind of power; ie they have the power to grant speical 'favors' otherwise known as political pull. The thing to attack here is the notion of government intervention into the economy, the thing to defend is an individual's (or a corporate entity's) right to be free from initiatory force or coercion. The race and age of the businessmen is totally irrelevant.

But I can see from your posts that your starting out. You have alot to read and a ton of things to learn. Read everything you can get your hands on of Ayn Rand first and foremost. Spend a few years with that.

That should keep you busy. After that, you can run for President if you want. But right now educate yourself.

You're confused.

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You still don't get it. I was being facetious. The race and age of the people is an irrelevancy. If 22 year old black people passed special interest legislation it would be just as wrong. The legislation in this case is prompted by one group of businessmen trying to gain through government intrevention a greater market share than they would otherwise be able to enjoy. They are trying to limit competition. Its disgusting when businesmen do this, but they do it because governments wield that kind of power; ie they have the power to grant speical 'favors' otherwise known as political pull. The thing to attack here is the notion of government intervention into the economy, the thing to defend is an individual's (or a corporate entity's) right to be free from initiatory force or coercion. The race and age of the businessmen is totally irrelevant.

But I can see from your posts that your starting out. You have alot to read and a ton of things to learn. Read everything you can get your hands on of Ayn Rand first and foremost. Spend a few years with that.

That should keep you busy. After that, you can run for President if you want. But right now educate yourself.

You're confused.

I see the connection between all interests groups and how they operate, I was just showing an example of this particular case. I didn't mean to paint the picture of this happening in all cases.

I know I have alot to learn, but I really can't sit by and watch this plan happen. They are trying to close all the stores, they are just starting off small so they don't piss off to many people. After they close the stores they want to start closing the bars and clubs. They have a whole plan that will go into effect if someone doesn't do something about it. I don't go to the bar or eat pizza, but I want every one else to have the right to do these things, and I want the owners to have the right to make a living. They say it is to decrease crime, yet the only time I see police officers on the block is during the day time when all the business leaders are out. At night, when the crackheads, hookers, and drug dealers are on the block I rarely see officers out. A couple weekends ago they were doing registration checks about 40 feet down the street as I walked out of my apartment to see the local crackdealers serving a crackhead.

I can't sit by and watch all this happen anymore. I don't care if I am just starting out and I am inexperianced. I can't do any worse than they are doing. They will not listen to us no matter how many signatures we recieve from the cities constituents, thus we have to get on the city council. I don't see any other option.

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...

I will be in a position of wealth like that some day, which I will earn because I have disposed of a social life so I can spend all time studying and working.

...

I am the happiest I have ever been, even though I don't do drugs, get drunk, party, or make allot of money. 

...

I am studying objectivism.

...

First, on a personal note. I admire the way you have turned your life around. You deserve a lot of credit for that. Inertia is what most people choose instead.

Second, I strongly recommend -- in your "spare" time -- rereading or at least reviewing The Fountainhead. In her fiction, Ayn Rand portrayed the ideal man, the kind of man who embodies her philosophy. In The Fountainhead, the hero, Howard Roark, did not dispose of his social life so that he could spend all his time studying and working. He worked because of his passion (his love) for architecture. He had friends -- ranging from Mike to Dominique to Heller to Wynand. He had leisure activities -- such as swimming and walking. His hierarchy of values guided him in deciding when and how much time to devote to each.

Philosophically speaking, I believe, these are the three highest types of personal values one can hold: work, friends, play. They are three pillars, so to speak, that hold up that state of mind called happiness.

Finally, a suggestion. This forum is dedicated to discussing Objectivism, the philosophy which Ayn Rand created and named. Please do not call it "objectivism." That uncapitalized spelling is, in result if not in intention, a diminution of her achievement. I suspect you are usuing the egalitarian spelling inadvertently, not maliciously.

Best for an objective future of play, friends, work -- and happiness.

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First, on a personal note. I admire the way you have turned your life around. You deserve a lot of credit for that. Inertia is what most people choose instead.

Second, I strongly recommend -- in your "spare" time -- rereading or at least reviewing The Fountainhead. In her fiction, Ayn Rand portrayed the ideal man, the kind of man who embodies her philosophy. In The Fountainhead, the hero, Howard Roark did not dispose of his social life so that he could spend all his time studying and working. He worked because of his passion (his love) for architecture. He had friends -- ranging from Mike to Dominique to Heller to Wynand. He had leisure activities -- such as swimming and walking. His hierarchy of values guided him in deciding when and how much time to devote to each.

Philosophically speaking, I believe, these are the three highest types of personal values one can hold: work, friends, play. They are three pillars, so to speak, that hold up that state of mind called happiness.

Finally, a suggestion. This forum is dedicated to discussing Objectivism, the philosophy which Ayn Rand created and named. Please do not call it "objectivism." That uncapitalized spelling is, in result if not in intention, a diminution of her achievement. I suspect you are usuing the egalitarian spelling inadvertently, not maliciously.

Best for an objective future of play, friends, work -- and happiness.

thank you, and I have read The Fountainhead, and Atlas Shrugged. I am actually quite happy working all the time. I have a great deal of passion for being as physically and mentally strong as possible. I need to work 40 hours a week at least, and I need a full-time school schedule. I have chosen to get rid of a social life because I have no time for it. I spend all my spare time working out, making music, or researching neurotechnology so I can obtain a summer research project

studying interfaces between neurons and silicon chips after I finish up my associates. So I guess my own hierarchy of values has placed my work at the top, and when I am not working I am most likely practicing the guitar or piano. I can spend the next 8 years doing this so I can spend the rest of my life with friends, and play.

Thanks for the posts, this gave me an idea for another post about something that has bothering me for a while.

BTW, sorry for not capitalizing Objectivism. I have a great deal of respect for Ayn Rand, and her accomplishments throughout life. I will make sure I do so for now on.

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I thought about running for city council, so I went to a few meetings and tried to imagine myself there.

It seemed that all I would do would say "no", "I disagree", "where did we get the power to do that ?", "no", "I disagree", "no", "I disagree", "no"...

I would highly recommend you learn to tolerate inhuman amounts of frustration, and to keep your cool and get comfortable being called a "weirdo", an "impractical extremist", a "facist", "out of touch", etc. regardless of how clearly you make your case.

It will surely build character.

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you are right, but please convince me how this would be possible and how we could convince the masses this is right.

Does anyone here have any good links on Objectivist political ideology? I am starting to think me view of what Objectivists believe is warped, so I would appreciate a good primer.

Thanks

The way to convince the masses is to spread the philosophy of Objectivism. For political philosophy, I recommend Ayn Rand's The Virtue of Selfishness, particularly the two essays, Man's Rights, and The Nature of Government.

More fundamentally, you should read Leonard Peikoff's comprehensive book on Objectivism, called Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand.

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I have decided on what I feel will be the correct course of action. I will be helping my roomate get on the Council. I have thought about it and realized this would annoy me more than anything. I want to have impenetrable defenses to my beliefs, and my knowledge is no where near that level yet. So I will instead lead her campaign by spreading fliers, taking petitions, etc. I need to start being politically active, so I will start participating in city council meeting. I will initially observe, but I will slowly began constructing arguments to proposals I oppose. I will do this with facts, logic, and rhetoric. I will also be reading the Objectivism political ideology extensively, as I feel I have a lot to learn from Objectivism.

Thank you for all the idea!

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luciferchrist:

Let me add my appreciation for your accomplishments to Burgesslau's. You have already come a long way and it sounds like you have the passion and ambition to go much further. You're going to need both.

I also applaud your political activity. I wish I saw more of your kind of passion among younger Objectivists.

I would like to help you with some practical advice. If you care to hear it, email me.

P.S. I know all about those special Grandmothers. :) I had one, too.

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