Dancing as non-art

[estheticidea]

Kainscalia, you insist on making ad hominem attacks. You speculate about me, and you're wrong!

As I said before, let's drop it. You have nothing to offer me in this area.

[kainscalia]

Kainscalia, you insist on making ad hominem attacks. You speculate about me, and you're wrong!

Then put your face forward. As far as speculation goes, you were the one who said:

you are trying to belittle something you know nothing about--so let's just drop it.

And let's not forget the "liberal professors of humanities" quip, making yet another assumption about my education.

Let the record reflect that you were the one who drew the Ad Hominem foil, and I am answering to you very simply: either prove it or back down. I know nothing of tango? Fine, I'm more than happy to place my credentials on the table. You, sir, do the same or shut up.

Edited June 23, 2009 by kainscalia

[estheticidea]

Kainscalia, I never said you know nothing about tango. I suggest you read or listen more precisely before you engage somebody about something he says. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are honestly mistaken. But based on your behavior here I'm not holding my breath waiting for an apology.

And that was not a "quip" about your education. I was identifying the IDEAS that you subscribe to.

[kainscalia]

Kainscalia, I never said you know nothing about tango. I suggest you read or listen more precisely before you engage somebody about something he says.

Then perhaps I suggest you strive to write your ideas more clearly.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are honestly mistaken. But based on your behavior here I'm not holding my breath waiting for an apology.

Why should I apologize to you? You have given me no reason to consider you to be right- all you have done is tell me I am wrong, but given no actual argument as to why I am wrong, outside of perhaps trying to classify me as a walking cliché.

And that was not a "quip" about your education. I was identifying the IDEAS that you subscribe to.

Then go ahead and discuss the right ideas, spare me your disdain and flippancy. Otherwise, don't be surprised if I am hostile towards you.

[aequalsa]

I was thinking of learning Tango, but I think that I'll stick with swing dancing. Tango sounds much too angry.

[kainscalia]

IT'S PASSION, GODDAMNIT!

*tears clothing*

I was thinking of learning Tango, but I think that I'll stick with swing dancing. Tango sounds much too angry.

[D'kian]

I've said this before, but there seems to be something rather reminiscent of a Hemlock Smoothie here.

This from someone involved ina flame war about dancing?

I mean, dancing. It's not as if it were politics, religion or Star Trek

[kainscalia]

The difference is bitterness. I'm not bitter, simply confrontational

Now get off my lawn.

Damn kids.

This from someone involved ina flame war about dancing?

I mean, dancing. It's not as if it were politics, religion or Star Trek

Edited June 23, 2009 by kainscalia

[D'kian]

The difference is bitterness. I'm not bitter, simply confrontational

To quote the great Victor Hugo "?"

Or in modern terms:

[MissLemon]

I was thinking of learning Tango, but I think that I'll stick with swing dancing. Tango sounds much too angry.

Don't let the flame war turn you against Tango, aequalsa. I would hope that if you look around your city you will find a place to study Tango that approaches the dance with civility and sweetness like I have found.

[estheticidea]

I was thinking of learning Tango, but I think that I'll stick with swing dancing. Tango sounds much too angry.

It makes me sad that this is indeed the image that emerges of tango, and some people obviously revel in it. (But do you realize that there is a similar image of swing dancing, with swing dancers dressing up as gangsters, etc?)

I disagree with that representation. Tango is not about anger at all, it is sweetness and earnestness. It is both serious and playful, at the same time, with playful challenging, back and forth between partners.

Tango as a social dance was suppressed and almost lost between the 1950s and the 1980s. Then in the 80's tango was re-interpreted by show dancers. These show dancers didn't understand the nature of tango posture and tango movement that give it its sweetness. Instead, they copied the steps and fabricated a technique for visual effect.

The dancers that I mentioned earlier, Javier and Geraldine are heroes because they helped re-discover what some of the old people still knew as tango. A vast majority of social dancers in the US don't know what this difference is and why it matters. The fundamental nature of their movement does not match the old (1920s-1950s) music and so they become indifferent to it.

[Alfa]

I was thinking of learning Tango, but if it's about sweetness i'm not so sure.

I want the sex and passion, and my(very limited) view on Tango is that's it's, simply put, gawdamn hot.

[estheticidea]

I was thinking of learning Tango, but if it's about sweetness i'm not so sure.

I want the sex and passion, and my(very limited) view on Tango is that's it's, simply put, gawdamn hot.

Ok, now at least that is an interesting statement.

I would be interested to know an example of what you think is hot, and if you are able to identify what makes it hot?

I gather that you don't find sweet things hot?

[aequalsa]

It makes me sad that this is indeed the image that emerges of tango, and some people obviously revel in it. (But do you realize that there is a similar image of swing dancing, with swing dancers dressing up as gangsters, etc?)

For the record, since there seems to be some confusion, I have taken a few tango lessons and do not think the dance itself to be angry. My comment was meant to be a backhanded dig at the flame war over it. I meant for the winky smilie face to imply this, but it must not have been clear. Sorry for the confusion.

[Alfa]

Ok, now at least that is an interesting statement.

I would be interested to know an example of what you think is hot, and if you are able to identify what makes it hot?

I gather that you don't find sweet things hot?

This is just from a quick youtube search, but I think it will suffice as an example:

Identifying exactly what makes it hot is harder... I think there's a strong masculine elegance from the male lead, while the lady moves in a sexy, feminine and gracious way. Then there's the music...

Sweetness can be hot, sometimes.

[K-Mac]

Let it go. You won't get me to say anything good about dancing, nor express any interest in it. And believe me you don't wanto to hear my rant about television (I don't want to, either ).

Let what go? And for someone who's not interested, you sure are posting a lot in this thread. What's your point then?

[D'kian]

Let what go? And for someone who's not interested, you sure are posting a lot in this thread. What's your point then?

To confuse you. It's working pretty well, isn't it?

[K-Mac]

I'm not confused, just annoyed. If I don't care about a subject or have nothing constructive to say, I don't post in that thread. It's almost as though you're trying to belittle us for liking dance. Bizarre way to waste your time.

[D'kian]

I'm not confused, just annoyed.

That works just as well.

If I don't care about a subject or have nothing constructive to say, I don't post in that thread.

Then we disagree on the appropriateness of when to post.

It's almost as though you're trying to belittle us for liking dance. Bizarre way to waste your time.

Well, it's like crashing a Trekkie thread: it's no use, but it's also irresistible (Do please note the use of smileys)

[estheticidea]

This is just from a quick youtube search, but I think it will suffice as an example:

Identifying exactly what makes it hot is harder... I think there's a strong masculine elegance from the male lead, while the lady moves in a sexy, feminine and gracious way. Then there's the music...

Sweetness can be hot, sometimes.

I agree with you. The elegance of the man and the femininity of the woman are made visible. The concept of elegance in tango entails that the man initiates movement and then follows the lady in the completion of the movement. This is incorporated well in the choreography of that video. The interesting thing is that, to enjoy tango is to build this element into every single step that is done together. The femininity of the woman entails that she is extremely self-contained. This element can also be enjoyed in every step, by both partners.

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

I'm certainly not an expert on dance, but the Tango seems similar to Swing Dancing in that the couple remains in contact most of the time and signals are passed from the lead to the follow through arm motions. One thing to keep in mind for these types of dancing that is very difficult for beginners is that once the lead makes a motion, and the follow is requested to do her steps, the lead needs to be aware of what she needs to do to do the following. It's very easy to rush things as one gets carried away with the music, but this is a big no no when it comes to lead / follow dancing. What keeps it all smoothly flowing is that each of the pair understands what the other is doing or is going to do, and to let her do it once the lead is made. But some of those leg motions seem like they'd pop a joint or two

Here is some fast Lindy Hop (never done that!):

I don't know, maybe if I get back to taking lessons and practice for ten years, I might be this good:

[kainscalia]

K-Mac, it isn't that puzzling at all: there is one character with a large belly, long fingers and green hair that simply can't stay away from the things he hates most. The behavior is well-documented, I would say

Then we disagree on the appropriateness of when to post.

Edited June 25, 2009 by kainscalia

[K-Mac]

RUSH, Pat Benatar, Meat Loaf, Joan Jett, various kinds of classical music.

Last night on SYTYCD, there was a routine to a Pat Benatar song. I couldn't help but think of this thread.

[estheticidea]

I'm certainly not an expert on dance, but the Tango seems similar to Swing Dancing in that the couple remains in contact most of the time and signals are passed from the lead to the follow through arm motions.

In Tango there are no signals and no arm motions. Fundamentally there are just body motions.

One thing to keep in mind for these types of dancing that is very difficult for beginners is that once the lead makes a motion, and the follow is requested to do her steps

In Tango there are no requests but invitations.

What keeps it all smoothly flowing is that each of the pair understands what the other is doing or is going to do,

In Tango what makes it flow smoothly is understanding your own motion (posture, balance, cadence) and feeling the motion of your partner as though it was your own.

[kainscalia]

I don't really watch TV anymore (not very interested- after all, I can get Murder, She Wrote on DVDs ;D), but I imagine it must have been interesting. I love Pat and I have a large collection of her songs myself.

And yes, I boogie to them.

Last night on SYTYCD, there was a routine to a Pat Benatar song. I couldn't help but think of this thread.