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Objectivist adultery

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gauthier
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I'd like to get a few opinions on this.

If you were married to an Objectivist and he/she commited adultery what would you do? Is this a deal breaker? Can your spouse still claim to be an Objectivist? I realize that I am leaving out the context so PM me if you would like more detail. I could really use the advice...

Thanks.

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I'd like to get a few opinions on this.

If you were married to an Objectivist and he/she commited adultery what would you do? Is this a deal breaker? Can your spouse still claim to be an Objectivist? I realize that I am leaving out the context so PM me if you would like more detail. I could really use the advice...

Thanks.

To my way of thinking infidelity is the ultimate show of disrespect in a relationship. The person who was cheated on deserves to be respected and deserves better than someone who would treat them that way. I know it can be incredibly hard to disentangle from someone you love and admire and have put in many years with (if in fact that is the case), but there comes a time when you have to look at what the other person's actions say about how they see you.

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There were probably some serious issues within the relationship before the infidelity. A couple can recover from infidelity, but both parties have to be willing to put in the effort, the issues must be identified and worked through, etc.

There are many websites where you can find information about recovering from infidelity. The first page of this article looks pretty good/accurate. http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/fea...ming-infedelity There are some lectures available at ARI about relationships that would probably be helpful as well. I really liked this one http://www.aynrandbookstore2.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IX01M (Now this lecture isn't specific to infidelity, but it's just good information for having a strong, lasting relationship.)

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I'd like to get a few opinions on this.

If you were married to an Objectivist and he/she commited adultery what would you do? Is this a deal breaker? Can your spouse still claim to be an Objectivist?

Thanks.

Yes, I would consider adultery "cheating" and therefore a deal breaker. I think adultery is incredibly disrespectful to a romantic partner and is grounds for dismissal from the relationship. I do think that depending on the circumstances, it is possible to work through something like this with your partner, but there is the risk that one or both parties will become very paranoid, distant or angry and the once fantastic relationship will dissipate. Communication and trust with a partner are some key factors if both parties intend to work through this.

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If you were married to an Objectivist and he/she commited adultery what would you do?

Confront them and ask for an explanation, then ask them what they want to do. If they don't know, I'd recommend that they take some time and figure out what they want. In either case, I'd also tell them what I want, which would probably include them going out the door.

Is this a deal breaker?

This would depend on the circumstances, but in most cases I'd say yes. It'd have to be pretty freakish circumstances before I'd treat this as anything other than a rather informal way to break up.

Can your spouse still claim to be an Objectivist?

Um, yes. It's not like there's some Objectivist commandment that says, "thou shalt not commit adultery". Now, if they *lie* about it or try to have their cake and eat it too or otherwise behave irrationally, yes, there are some things about Objectivism that they're not understanding and applying properly. But not everyone who sleeps with someone other than their spouse does those things. Even extremely rational people can come up against serious conflicts, though.

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I'd like to get a few opinions on this.

If you were married to an Objectivist and he/she commited adultery what would you do? Is this a deal breaker? Can your spouse still claim to be an Objectivist? I realize that I am leaving out the context so PM me if you would like more detail. I could really use the advice...

Thanks.

Fuck that, I'd be gone. Objectivist or not, committing adultery is pretty much the most grievous breach of trust that can occur in a relationship short of murder. Without trust there is nothing. There's literally no excuse for it, ever, save if you're already being cheated on. Then all bets are off.

I don't see why they couldn't still be an objectivist. They're only human and can screw up like anyone else. How they dealt with the consequences would probably say more about their adherence to objectivism than anything else.

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Um, yes. It's not like there's some Objectivist commandment that says, "thou shalt not commit adultery". Now, if they *lie* about it...

Isn't cheating lying in itself? After all, they could've broken up and only then choose to sleep with someone else.

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I don't think committing adultery strips someone of his/her Objectivist "membership card." People will make mistakes; the acid test is how they respond to those mistakes.

As for whether or not adultery is a dealbreaker, I'd have to say it comes down to your judgment about your spouse and your marriage. There's nothing wrong with forgiving someone (that is, making a rational judgment that a person's transgression is an aberration and is NOT indicative of that person's moral character), so long as that person is genuinely remorseful and makes appropriate reparations (marriage counseling, for example).

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There's nothing wrong with forgiving someone (that is, making a rational judgment that a person's transgression is an aberration and is NOT indicative of that person's moral character)

Or that they change the direction of the development of their character. This is unusual.

As for myself, though I'm not sure, I lean toward not forgiving. This isn't a quick slipup. The kind of continous choice cheating requires makes it an unforgivable betrayal. Yes, a dishonest way of ending the relationship.

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Or that they change the direction of the development of their character. This is unusual.

As for myself, though I'm not sure, I lean toward not forgiving. This isn't a quick slipup. The kind of continous choice cheating requires makes it an unforgivable betrayal. Yes, a dishonest way of ending the relationship.

I agree. If you can't trust someone not to have sex with someone else, you probably can't count on them for much.

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I agree. If you can't trust someone not to have sex with someone else, you probably can't count on them for much.

I just don't see anything that can be forgiven. Not necessarily in the sense that it's too bad to be forgiven (though that works as well), but in that cheating is not a mistake, it's a declaration.

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I really liked this one http://www.aynrandbookstore2.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IX01M (Now this lecture isn't specific to infidelity, but it's just good information for having a strong, lasting relationship.)

Cool, I didn't know that Kenner and Locke were working on a book together on love. I have a lecture I still haven't listened to yet, titled Love, Sex and Romance, by Leonard Peikoff.

Edited by intellectualammo
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I agree. If you can't trust someone not to have sex with someone else, you probably can't count on them for much.

I disagree. People compartmentalize many aspects of their life. If someone is in a relationship that is so troubled one partner ends up cheating, yes, there are issues that need to be worked on, but that certainly doesn't mean that person can never be trusted again, and isn't a perfectly trustworthy person in other aspects of their life.

Often times one partner ends up cheating due to lack of emotion/romance in the primary relationship. I'm sure there are hedonists out there who go out looking for a physical relationship (or two or three) outside of their marriage, but if we're talking Objectivists here, I would say the reasons are probably more emotional/psychological rather than just a need for physical sex.

I'm not saying anyone deserves to be cheated on and I don't excuse the behavior of the cheater, but relationship and/or personal problems that go unaddressed only lead to ugly situations. That doesn't mean your whole life is trash and you're never to be trusted again by anyone. It means you have a problem you need to fix, whether the relationship survives the cheating or not. (And in the case of cheating, I would say both partners in the relationship probably have something to fix. The cheater probably has more to fix due to the cheating, but I bet the other partner isn't innocent in the marital issues.)

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Isn't cheating lying in itself? After all, they could've broken up and only then choose to sleep with someone else.

No. Lying is lying. Cheating is sleeping with someone else.

Premeditated cheating probably involves lying, but a badly-misjudged one-night-stand does not, necessarily. People are complicated. Stranger things have happened.

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Shocking as it may seem, many Objectivists have affairs the difference is in that it's out.

Too bad you can't travel back in time to ask Frank and Barbara.

The more you love, the more you can love — and the more intensely you love.

Nor is there any limit on how many you can love.

If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.

Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

Robert Anson Heinlein

<Φ>aj

Edited by aristotlejones
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Often times one partner ends up cheating due to lack of emotion/romance in the primary relationship.

But then you formally finish the relationship before going elsewhere.

No. Lying is lying. Cheating is sleeping with someone else.

Makes no sense to me. You're lying about your commitment to the relationship, even if you confess afterward.

Premeditated cheating probably involves lying, but a badly-misjudged one-night-stand does not, necessarily. People are complicated. Stranger things have happened.

Even a one-night-stand isn't as quick and accidental as slipping on a banana peel. It's a backhanded declaration that the relationship is over, and that you spit on your partner instead of respectfully ending it.

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But then you formally finish the relationship before going elsewhere.

Well, when you take my statement out of context, your simple answer makes sense. :)

As I stated in the surrounding paragraph(s), the relationship is in trouble and needs help. It could be very well fixable, but both parties are not actively working to fix it. If they were thinking straight in the first place, the affair wouldn't happen. Since they're obviously not handling their emotions or the relationship appropriately, of course they're not going to call and break up over the phone the moment they meet someone new and an affair is about to ensue. Things just don't work that way and divorce is not a quick, easy process.

Relationships aren't easy or automatic, even when two people truly love each other deeply. Whether or not a relationship can survive infidelity depends on the individuals involved and their unique situation. I find it simply ignorant for some of you to condemn someone you don't know this harshly. We don't even know the details of the situation. :dough:

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Are you, and everyone else in this thread, not responding to the situation as presented by the OP??

Me? Nope. But if I were, I'd indeed say "it depends", while leaning toward "dump her" as a general sentiment.

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