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Senate Passes Health Care Bill

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How about writing back to them saying no, they don't. It's not government's job, and in fact, by getting involved, government will cause the decline in the availability of health care and health insurance.

But we must act on the expediency of the moment! We don't have time for principles!

Seriously, though, on the plus side, Obama's plan gets less popular by the day.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_con...surance_company

Edited by The Lonely Rationalist
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How about writing back to them saying no, they don't. It's not government's job, and in fact, by getting involved, government will cause the decline in the availability of health care and health insurance.

I DO write them back and say if you "must take action" then I must take action to try to convince everyone I know, who votes, to make sure you don't have the ability to "take action" in the future.

I don't get many responses using this approach.

I see it's possible they won't succeed in getting this passed so I am just hanging on to that thin hope.

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There is a group of 6 or so Democrats in the Senate who are urging that this legislative juggernaut be slowed down. It is key to prevent this from being passed before the August recess. If that happens, we'll have a much better chance to build the support needed to defeat it for good.

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I wouldn't count out the possibility that it will be strung along indefinitely until the next Congressional elections, when the Republicans will be likely to gain some seats. Obama's honeymoon is all but over, and people are getting frustrated with all the spending and nationalization. Here's hoping the Republicans can rise from the ashes and rediscover their small government roots.

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I wouldn't count out the possibility that it will be strung along indefinitely until the next Congressional elections, when the Republicans will be likely to gain some seats. Obama's honeymoon is all but over, and people are getting frustrated with all the spending and nationalization. Here's hoping the Republicans can rise from the ashes and rediscover their small government roots.

We'll see, but Obama won't give up easily on this one. The Left's quest for national healthcare extends back to the early 1900s and the Progressive Era.

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The program in Mass. has also turned out to be a disaster. Everywhere it's tried, these kinds of government-run healthcare plans are a complete mess. When you have faith in the Messiah's brand of "change", it's easy to dismiss real world experiences and evidence.

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I had a very revealing conversation with a coworker today. This isn't the kind of guy who will be convinced by moral arguments, so I was arguing against the practicality of the bill. The main point I raised is that it will decrease competition and, eventually, force people to use the public option, which will provide lower-quality care. His response was "why should you have better health care than everyone else?" I was dumb-struck. He actually believed that, rather than improving health care for everyone else, people like myself who have coverage through a private company should be brought down to the level of the lowest common denominator.

When I pointed out to him that he basically just admitted his primary goal was to bring down health care for the rich, rather than improve it for the poor, he gave me the standard line about "equality." This isn't the attitude of everyone who supports health care reform...some people think it will actually work. While I think they are misguided and, ultimately, wrong, I don't hold it against them to the same degree that I hold it against this guy. What a contemptible way to view the world.

Edited by The Wrath
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I had a very revealing conversation with a coworker today. This isn't the kind of guy who will be convinced by moral arguments, so I was arguing against the practicality of the bill. The main point I raised is that it will decrease competition and, eventually, force people to use the public option, which will provide lower-quality care. His response was "why should you have better health care than everyone else?" I was dumb-struck. He actually believed that, rather than improving health care for everyone else, people like myself who have coverage through a private company should be brought down to the level of the lowest common denominator.

When I pointed out to him that he basically just admitted his primary goal was to bring down health care for the rich, rather than improve it for the poor, he gave me the standard line about "equality." This isn't the attitude of everyone who supports health care reform...some people think it will actually work. While I think they are misguided and, ultimately, wrong, I don't hold it against them to the same degree that I hold it against this guy. What a contemptible way to view the world.

The next time someone says something like that to me, I shall respond, "Because I am willing to work for it and I earn it. Why don't you want to do the same?"

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The next time someone says something like that to me, I shall respond, "Because I am willing to work for it and I earn it. Why don't you want to do the same?"

I doubt you'd get a rational response. You're dealing with someone who has the same morality as a thief. In fact, the thief is probably easier to deal with than the moral coward who uses government to do his bidding.

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From http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/go...amp;newsLang=en

Responding to a question, President Obama said, “Part of what we want to do is to make sure that those decisions are being made by doctors and medical experts based on evidence, based on what works…. Right now, doctors a lot of times are forced to make decisions based on the fee payment schedule that's out there. … the doctor may look at the reimbursement system and say to himself, 'You know what? I make a lot more money if I take this kid's tonsils out … I'd rather have that doctor making those decisions based on whether you really need your kid's tonsils out, or whether … something else would make a difference…. So part of what we want to do is to free doctors, patients, hospitals to make decisions based on what's best for patient care.”

From The Heritage Society today:

The American Academy of Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery responded to President Obama’s prescription for less tonsillectomies: “the AAO-HNS is disappointed by the President’s portrayal of the decision making processes by the physicians who perform these surgeries. In many cases, tonsillectomy may be a more effective treatment, and less costly, than prolonged or repeated treatments for an infected throat.”

My uncle is an ENT and he makes about $100 on this procedure that is rarely done any longer. :lol:

Edited by K-Mac
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I doubt you'd get a rational response. You're dealing with someone who has the same morality as a thief. In fact, the thief is probably easier to deal with than the moral coward who uses government to do his bidding.

I would say it's worse than the morality of a thief. A thief at least has a semi-rational goal: he wants material possessions. He just has an immoral way of procuring those possessions.

The mentality of my coworker is one of someone who doesn't want to steal for his own benefit or for the benefit of anyone else, but to destroy the values of one person so that they are brought down to the level of people who are less well-off. Rather than stealing my car for use by someone else, he wants to blow it up so that no one can use it.

I'm reminded of a quote from The Dark Knight, regarding the Joker:

Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Edited by The Wrath
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  • 2 weeks later...
Business groups and doctor's associations and labor union as all petitioning for the Health Care Bill, so long as they get a cut of the pie. Disgusting, but pragmatism instead of principles may make this thing pass. That it violates everyone's rights doesn't seem to be of too much concern -- just the bottom line of dividing up the spoils.
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Business groups and doctor's associations and labor union as all petitioning for the Health Care Bill, so long as they get a cut of the pie. Disgusting, but pragmatism instead of principles may make this thing pass. That it violates everyone's rights doesn't seem to be of too much concern -- just the bottom line of dividing up the spoils.

I see a lot of people these days confusing correlation and causation as they rush to get their share.

Its about people bowing to what they see as the inevitable.. even as they avoid recognizing that their bowing to it is what is making it inevitable.

I had a conversation last night where I pointed out that healthcare CAN'T be a human right.

A human right can't be something that someone else has to provide.

If healthcare were a human right, then doctors are little more than a natural resource (your right to life gives you a right to breathe air) which then means that doctors are slaves.. since everyone then has a right to their time, energies, efforts and minds.

The OP agreed, but then shrugged and said "well.. it doesn't matter, it is inevitable".

For a president whose Marxist propaganda campaign posters featured the word "HOPE" so [redominantly I see so much hopelessness in every regard as I look around. Everyone talking about the "inevitable".

"Hope" has never been so damn depressing.

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Efforts to contact the White House may be paying off in small degrees. Recently they backed out on "end of life" counseling after hearing from millions of aged individuals emailing them. I think the email address is: [email protected] but you can also post a message to whitehouse.gov. I recommend sending at least a link to Dr. Peikoff's article "Health Care is not a Right." Maybe it will make some headway.

http://www.bdt.com/pages/Peikoff.html

And you might also send them the link to "Man's Rights" by Ayn Rand:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pag...rand_man_rights

Who knows, maybe someone there will read them.

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From a blog:

Health care in the US is covered by three main systems -- Medicare, medicaid, and private insurance.

Two of these systems are bankrupt, and will be unable to make payments beyond [2017].

The third is solvent, and can make all of its payments for the foreseeable future.

Barack Obama's plan is to take the one system meeting its obligations and fold it into the two systems that are bankrupt.

HT: FIRM

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Business groups and doctor's associations and labor union as all petitioning for the Health Care Bill, so long as they get a cut of the pie. Disgusting, but pragmatism instead of principles may make this thing pass. That it violates everyone's rights doesn't seem to be of too much concern -- just the bottom line of dividing up the spoils.

The big drug companies also decided to make a deal with the devil:

"Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/p...uzin&st=cse

This has to be one of the more disturbing examples of a pragmatism in action. The funny thing is that no sooner did the drug companies cut a deal with Obama, then the Lefties in Congress declared that they weren't going to be bound by any deal made by the White House. How's that old saying go? When you lay down with dogs.....

As usual, the Wall Street Journal has a tremendous editorial on this sleazy deal.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0960419516.html

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