Ubama wernt no citizen! He tik er persidencies

[TheEgoist]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july...e-born-identity

Pretty hilarious bit from the Daily Show, and it's a funny situation in one way...But to know that American representatives are acknowledging these whackjobs is equally disturbing.

[Greyhawk]

Someone is going to say, 'wittily' that he is not a "Citizen Qua Citizen" who violates our values yadda yadda. I hope I'm wrong.

[Jake_Ellison]

Someone is going to say, 'wittily' that he is not a "Citizen Qua Citizen" who violates our values yadda yadda. I hope I'm wrong.

I have no idea what people will say, but I know you're not actually making a prediction, or hoping that your baseless guess is wrong.

[Maximus]

He is not a "Citizen Qua Citizen" who violates our values yadda yadda.

Hey, you were right!

Guys, what the hell does that mean anyhow?

[TheEgoist]

The Republican Nirther Revolution continues.

After several times being mentioned approvingly on Lou Dobbs, everyone's favorite right-wing nitwit Limbaugh had this to say on his show:

" Barack Obama has yet to have to prove that he's a citizen. All he has to do is show a birth certificate. He has yet to have to prove he's a citizen. I have to show them 14 different ways where the h--- I am every day of the year for three years"

So to people still defending this drug-addled hypocrite, please stop.

And finally, a video from HuffPo of U.S Congressmen refusing to answer the simplest question ever posed to them by a reporter: Do you believe Barack Obama is a U.S Citizen and legitimate president? See what you're doing to me, moonbats? MAKING ME AGREE WITH THE HUFFPO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gN-rxJFvJ8...player_embedded

[Thales]

The Republican Nirther Revolution continues.

After several times being mentioned approvingly on Lou Dobbs, everyone's favorite right-wing nitwit Limbaugh had this to say on his show:

" Barack Obama has yet to have to prove that he's a citizen. All he has to do is show a birth certificate. He has yet to have to prove he's a citizen. I have to show them 14 different ways where the h--- I am every day of the year for three years"

So to people still defending this drug-addled hypocrite, please stop.

What he is referring to is New York State and/or NYC are forcing him to prove where he is in order to steal more wealth from him. They harass the hell out of him. He apparently has to prove that he was not in NYC and do it multiple ways. They steal huge sums of money from him in the process. This is why he’s moved out of New York. The hypocrisy is that leftists will go to the nth degree to harass someone they don't agree with, yet will give a green flag to the most flagrant actions by their ideological allies.

Rush is very defensible. You are simply not rationally evaluating him.

As to the birth certificate, it's not an essential issue, even if it's never been proven. The essential issue is the fact that someone like Obama can be elected in the first place. It's much ado about nothing.

[Clawg]

As to the birth certificate, it's not an essential issue, even if it's never been proven. The essential issue is the fact that someone like Obama can be elected in the first place. It's much ado about nothing.

It's insofar essential as he can be blackmailed because of it.

[gags]

It's insofar essential as he can be blackmailed because of it.

The man is president. End of story. There isn't any real controversy.

[Clawg]

The man is president. End of story. There isn't any real controversy.

Nothing to see here, move along

If it's true that he can't provide his birth certificate then it just shows how dependant he is from the political forces behind him.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Clawg

[TheEgoist]

What he is referring to is New York State and/or NYC are forcing him to prove where he is in order to steal more wealth from him. They harass the hell out of him. He apparently has to prove that he was not in NYC and do it multiple ways. They steal huge sums of money from him in the process. This is why he’s moved out of New York. The hypocrisy is that leftists will go to the nth degree to harass someone they don't agree with, yet will give a green flag to the most flagrant actions by their ideological allies.

Rush is very defensible. You are simply not rationally evaluating him.

As to the birth certificate, it's not an essential issue, even if it's never been proven. The essential issue is the fact that someone like Obama can be elected in the first place. It's much ado about nothing.

It's the case that Rush brought up his problems to seg-way back and forth into the moonbattery of this most laughable issue that mentally unstable bloggers like Atlas Shrugs have come up with. Rush sanctions and uses the same arguments they do.

[Thales]

It's the case that Rush brought up his problems to seg-way back and forth into the moonbattery of this most laughable issue that mentally unstable bloggers like Atlas Shrugs have come up with. Rush sanctions and uses the same arguments they do.

Rush sometimes focuses on non-essential issues. He all too often gets involved in minutia and thinks it's important, but I would say that is typical thinking for most citizens today, including the MSM.

I take it you are getting this from Charles Johnson?

[Uttles]

Has it been objectively demonstrated that Obama is in fact a US citizen? Last time I checked, the certificate his campaign produced was a fraud. (I can't remember the details, but it had features that weren't possible on the printing equipment of the day or some such thing)

It doesn't matter, because you can't be impeached for not being a citizen. You also can't be impeached when you own congress.

[The Lonely Rationalist]

Has it been objectively demonstrated that Obama is in fact a US citizen? Last time I checked, the certificate his campaign produced was a fraud. (I can't remember the details, but it had features that weren't possible on the printing equipment of the day or some such thing)

It was NOT a fraud, it was a copy. And the mere fact that his birth was mentioned in a paper in Hawaii is proof enough that he was born in America.

[Clawg]

It was NOT a fraud, it was a copy.

It was not a photocopy of the original birth certificate, merely some form of receipt, e.g. there is no signature of a doctor and/or attendant.

And the mere fact that his birth was mentioned in a paper in Hawaii is proof enough that he was born in America.

Are there legal formalities that determine in which newspaper one is allowed to mention a birth?

Edited July 28, 2009 by Clawg

[aequalsa]

It was not a photocopy of the original birth certificate, merely some form of receipt, e.g. there is no signature of a doctor and/or attendant.

Are there legal formalities that determine in which newspaper one is allowed to mention a birth?

I lost my wallet once could not even get a social security card, let alone a DL with that same thing. I had to wait over six weeks until the original came in the mail. If they make me jump through bureaucratic hoops for a friggin license they should at least do the same for the job of president. I'm just sayin'...

[Capitalism Forever]

You also can't be impeached when you own congress.

Don't be so sure he owns Congress. It may well be the other way around.

Obama would be nowhere without the D.C. establishment; he needs them more than they need him. They needed him a lot in 2008, when he was an idol--but now that his celebrity status is slipping, he is starting to become more of a liability than an asset to them. This is why I predicted that he won't even complete his first term. The birth certificate issue might be one convenient way for his "friends" to dump him should he become too much of a liability.

[Jake_Ellison]

It was not a photocopy of the original birth certificate, merely some form of receipt, e.g. there is no signature of a doctor and/or attendant.

Are there legal formalities that determine in which newspaper one is allowed to mention a birth?

Unless you're suggesting that he was engineered in a lab in North Korea, to become President, and the details of his life started being planted from his birth, there is no need for "legal formalities". Not that you would all of a sudden change your tune, then you'd just say it's a conspiracy of the government.

A mention of one's birth in an old newspaper is proof enough, because there is no conceivable reason for someone to have faked it at the time.

If you're alleging that he faked the details of his birth, to be able to run for President, that's baseless, until you provide evidence. Just saying it is irrational.

You seem to have set it as the goal of your life to doubt every piece of evidence you come across. You're doing this here, you're doing it about 9/11. Is there anything you accept as evidence, proving any undeniable fact?

Has it been objectively demonstrated that Obama is in fact a US citizen? Last time I checked, the certificate his campaign produced was a fraud. (I can't remember the details,...

Huh. You'd think the details of the US President forging an official document, thus committing a major crime, would stick with you for a while. I remember Watergate, even though I haven't read up on it in ages. Is it possible you never knew those details, but you just read some blurry theory you didn't even really believe or take seriously, on some website?

[gags]

It's the case that Rush brought up his problems to seg-way back and forth into the moonbattery of this most laughable issue that mentally unstable bloggers like Atlas Shrugs have come up with. Rush sanctions and uses the same arguments they do.

Something worth remembering about Limbaugh is that the guy is first and foremost an entertainer. He is a radio talk show host doing what he can to draw in the largest audience possible and a little controversy generally doesn't hurt your ratings. Of course he has an ideology and of course he sees himself as an important opinion-maker (which he is, to some extent), but don't forget the entertainment piece because it's important. Also, he's on the air for 15 hours per week, every week. I don't know about you, but if I had to talk for 15 hours per week on a national radio program, I'm fairly certain that people could find more than just a few stupid things that I would have said over the years.

[Clawg]

Unless you're suggesting that he was engineered in a lab in North Korea, to become President, and the details of his life started being planted from his birth, there is no need for "legal formalities". Not that you would all of a sudden change your tune, then you'd just say it's a conspiracy of the government.

You ignore that you can't become president on your own. Political forces pick appropriate candidates. In politics / bureaucracies mediocre people or people with some 'bodies in the basement' have higher chances to gain ranks because they pose less of a danger to their superiors. Here is one article about that subject (english) : http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/...,637767,00.html

A mention of one's birth in an old newspaper is proof enough, because there is no conceivable reason for someone to have faked it at the time.

If you're alleging that he faked the details of his birth, to be able to run for President, that's baseless, until you provide evidence. Just saying it is irrational.

True. But there could be other reasons. Are there advantages for someone born as an US citizen (compared to someone born as a Kenyan citizen)? If yes then this could have been a motive.

You seem to have set it as the goal of your life to doubt every piece of evidence you come across. You're doing this here, you're doing it about 9/11. Is there anything you accept as evidence, proving any undeniable fact?

Maybe I'm a truth loving person

In this case I would accept the original birth certificate as evidence.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

Clawg, you and your nirther friends are massively ignorant here about copies of birth certificates.

A registered copy of a birth certificate is binding enough to get a passport. I did so once (not because I lost the original, but because I didn't want to surrender it and possibly have it get lost or destroyed by some Closseau of a bureaucrat, as I know has happened to a couple of my friends). The copy I got looks nothing like the original (which was banged out on a manual typewriter on blue paper, in a military hospital) but it is an indication that the state I was born in "remembers" that I was born there, and that's what they need.

It doesn't have to be a photocopy of the original, it just has to come out of the same bureaucracy that swallowed up the original-format form when the hospital give them a copy. It doesn't even matter if the original carbon copy form still exists in a file cabinet somewhere or it was digitized.

So if Hawaii says that Obama was born there, and will crank out a document saying so (whether or not the document was banged out back then on a contemporary typewriter or printed with an inkjet purchased three or four years ago), AND it's announced in a newspaper.... well, you are clinging to *extremely* arbitrary conspiracy theories here.

Someone else pointed out that the important question is why this guy was elected. Another one is whether Obama loyal to the US as such (we already know he is hostile to America as Objectivists conceive it) or is he one of those Chomskyites who suffers from such a huge conviction that America is the bad guy that he won't take steps to defend this country against foreign threats. I hope we don't have an opportunity to discover the answer to this.

[Clawg]

Well, for me it doesn't even matter if Obama is a born US citizen or not. For all I care he could be born and raised in China. The law doesn't protect the country from bad presidents, being born and raised in one country doesn't improve one's qualities concerning being a good president. I would even go as far as to say that this law is actually bad because it gives people false security as it stresses the irrational reasoning that an american POTUS is better than a chinese POTUS, just because he was born and raised in the US.

The issue about the birth certificate is very insignificant. A funny foot-note compared to the real issues.

Issues like this one just give a small glimpse how politics work :>

[Thales]

Well, for me it doesn't even matter if Obama is a born US citizen or not. For all I care he could be born and raised in China. The law doesn't protect the country from bad presidents, being born and raised in one country doesn't improve one's qualities concerning being a good president. I would even go as far as to say that this law is actually bad because it gives people false security as it stresses the irrational reasoning that an american POTUS is better than a chinese POTUS, just because he was born and raised in the US.

The issue about the birth certificate is very insignificant. A funny foot-note compared to the real issues.

Issues like this one just give a small glimpse how politics work :>

That's right, Clawg.

What is important is spreading reason, egoism and the rights of man. That's what I'm focusing on.

[Jake_Ellison]

Maybe I'm a truth loving person

In this case I would accept the original birth certificate as evidence.

Well, that's a way to dodge the question, because you didn't name an actual piece of evidence, but a hypothetical one. I was asking what actual evidence would you accept, which proves an actual, real event occured. Do you accept the NASA account of the moon-landing was real, and what is the evidence that convinced you? Do you accept that the widely held account of the Holocaust is real, and what is the evidence which convinced you?

If you do, I could then be the Devil's advocate, and use some of the same arguments you've used in the past, against people talking about 9/11 or Obama's birth.

[RussK]

I had to do a search on the term nirther, I hadn't seen it before. Anyway, "Hawaii again declares Obama birth certificate real." But I doubt this will stop the crazy blogs or emails.

[TheEgoist]

Rush sometimes focuses on non-essential issues. He all too often gets involved in minutia and thinks it's important, but I would say that is typical thinking for most citizens today, including the MSM.

I take it you are getting this from Charles Johnson?

His blog is one of my favorites, yes. And as the person who exposed the slanderous liberals like Dan Rather with the Bush military documents, I think he has a pretty relevant opinion in phony documenting and has again and again confirmed that all the documents used to verify Obama's birth were valid.

Clawg and other conspiracy types thrive not just off politics and their own personal beliefs but from making baseless accusations towards authority figures.. I've seen him in other threads defending the Truthers and now he takes a blockheaded stance with the Birthers. One thing about the Truthers, at least they didn't have a bloc of Congressmen agreeing with them.