Marine Let's Congressman Baird Have It at Townhall

[Thales]

David William Hedrick is a Marine, and you'll love this!

The status should read "Lets", but I can't edit the status.

Edited August 23, 2009 by Thales

[aleph_0]

To be fair, the Dems are only saying that you get to keep your medical plan because people are confused about the matter--they're not implying it's a favor or that they have the right to change it. But otherwise, a pretty inspiring clip.

[softwareNerd]

To be fair, the Dems are only saying that you get to keep your medical plan because people are confused about the matter--they're not implying it's a favor or that they have the right to change it.

I beg to differ. They are definitely implying that they have the right to change it. Only, they are not doing so explicitly. They do not need to. They, and the citizenry in general, simply assume that they have the right to change it. So, that part of the guy's speech was particularly good, because he questions the underlying premise the has gone unnamed. Edited August 23, 2009 by softwareNerd

[Rearden_Steel]

Damn, I live in Clark county Wa and Baird is my congressmen. I didn't know about the town hall meeting. Looks like I missed a hell of a show.

[softwareNerd]

I even liked the last bit, after he had finished speaking. Just walking over to his wife and child, added an essential context (for me), as in "here are the values I am defending".

[aleph_0]

I beg to differ. They are definitely implying that they have the right to change it. Only, they are not doing so explicitly. They do not need to. They, and the citizenry in general, simply assume that they have the right to change it. So, that part of the guy's speech was particularly good, because he questions the underlying premise the has gone unnamed.

They may or may not think they have the right to change his healthcare plan--in either case, that is not what they are expressing here. Obama repeatedly remarks that you can keep your plan if you want, because he thinks people are either forgetting that they can or are confused about the matter, and not because he is trying to express that he is doing people a favor by letting them keep their plan.

[Thales]

They may or may not think they have the right to change his healthcare plan--in either case, that is not what they are expressing here. Obama repeatedly remarks that you can keep your plan if you want, because he thinks people are either forgetting that they can or are confused about the matter, and not because he is trying to express that he is doing people a favor by letting them keep their plan.

They want single payer, which means you have no rights. What the dems are saying regarding being "allowed" to keep your plan is a way to appease the crowds so that they can push their agenda through sneakily in small portions. So, what the Marine said was a perfectly placed salvo across the bow of the statist ship.

[fountainhead777]

Additionally, the idea that you can keep your plan and nothing will change is preposterous. Introducing a new competitor to a field which can fix its own prices and which essentially takes money from all other companies to fund itself will impact prices, quantity and quality of health care available.

Despite being able to keep your current plan these side effects will undoubtedly have a large negative effect on all in the health care market

[prosperity]

They may or may not think they have the right to change his healthcare plan--in either case, that is not what they are expressing here. Obama repeatedly remarks that you can keep your plan if you want, because he thinks people are either forgetting that they can or are confused about the matter, and not because he is trying to express that he is doing people a favor by letting them keep their plan.

Obama says a lot of things. Whether or not you trust what he says is another matter. I don't (trust him). I am reminded of a Penn and Teller skit:

"I'm not taking pie from you, I'm giving it to me."

[TheEgoist]

Obama says a lot of things. Whether or not you trust what he says is another matter. I don't (trust him). I am reminded of a Penn and Teller skit:

"I'm not taking pie from you, I'm giving it to me."

Good reference, sir.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

Even if absolutely true--that you can keep your plan as long as you have your job, and your company won't stop offering it because it's being driven out of business by a subsidized "public option".... you are only allowed to change *to* the public option, and once in the public option, you may not leave it. Don't lose your job, folks! Don't go to another employer!

Hmm... being penalized for not being the approved option, only allowed to change if it's to the approved option, and not allowed to change away from the approved option once in it..... sounds EXACTLY like the way non-Muslim religions are treated under sharia law.

[Eiuol]

Obama says a lot of things. Whether or not you trust what he says is another matter. I don't (trust him). I am reminded of a Penn and Teller skit:

I would say that Obama is so much of a pragmatist you can easily trust what he says to be what he actually thinks. If it's the middle ground, that's probably Obama's opinion. Government providing its own plan while private plans are still available is still bad in either case... It's only marginally better than the government providing the only plan. It's just like the public school system. You pay for it whether you use it or not. You can still go to a private school.

[fountainhead777]

except private schools get their costs driven up so high that few can afford them and instead get stuck in mediocre schools that cater to the ever lower average.

i do not want to see the average as it descends in health care

[prosperity]

I would say that Obama is so much of a pragmatist you can easily trust what he says to be what he actually thinks. If it's the middle ground, that's probably Obama's opinion. Government providing its own plan while private plans are still available is still bad in either case... It's only marginally better than the government providing the only plan. It's just like the public school system. You pay for it whether you use it or not. You can still go to a private school.

I guess this really depends on what he says now that I think about it. I remember him once saying that the free market was good, then saying later on that it needed to be controlled. He's constantly saying that his healthcare plan is "good for everyone". THAT is what I don't trust, or don't believe perhaps I should say.

I think you're right from the perspective of, well, when he says he wants a universal healthcare system, I think he means it.

[Thales]

I would say that Obama is so much of a pragmatist you can easily trust what he says to be what he actually thinks. If it's the middle ground, that's probably Obama's opinion. Government providing its own plan while private plans are still available is still bad in either case... It's only marginally better than the government providing the only plan. It's just like the public school system. You pay for it whether you use it or not. You can still go to a private school.

I've been evaluating this claim he's a pragmatist and it really isn't holding up. As Yaron Brook said on PJTV a few weeks ago, Obama's rhetoric is to the middle, but every time he acts he goes way, way left.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Thales

[Quin]

I was just listening to this on Rush Limbaugh. There needs to be more people like this man who come off as reasonable to people when they end up getting played on television and radio.

[D'kian]

I've been evaluating this claim he's a pragmatist and it really isn't holding up. As Yaron Brook said on PJTV a few weeks ago, Obama's rhetoric is to the middle, but every time he acts he goes way, way left.

I agree. Obama pays lip service to pragmatism. He will say what will get him elected, then do as he wants. And what he wants, of course, is very far to the left. He wants single payer healthcare, he wants to curb industry through enviromental initiatives, he probably wants the head of every big corporation to ask the government's permission for anything they do.

[PatriotResistance]

They may or may not think they have the right to change his healthcare plan--in either case, that is not what they are expressing here. Obama repeatedly remarks that you can keep your plan if you want, because he thinks people are either forgetting that they can or are confused about the matter, and not because he is trying to express that he is doing people a favor by letting them keep their plan.

When Obama says you can keep your current plan it is only a sales job to hide his true intentions. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. If they can get any part of this plan at all in place, they will cause it to evolve over the years into a 100% socialistic government run health care system.

And here is just a small part of the proof:

Montage of public statements

Obama and Barney Frank spell it out

See you in Galts Gulch!

Galts Gulch Gifts

[Eiuol]

When Obama says you can keep your current plan it is only a sales job to hide his true intentions. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. If they can get any part of this plan at all in place, they will cause it to evolve over the years into a 100% socialistic government run health care system.

It doesn't matter what his "true intentions", any government intervention in any manner is bad. To say "true intentions" makes it sound like a conspiracy. You can think Obama has some secret/hidden motive, but I don't. Anything short of a free market is bad. And that's all that needs to be emphasized.

[Rockefeller]

It doesn't matter what his "true intentions" [are], any government intervention in any manner is bad.

Within the context of health care debate, exposing his "true intentions" matters a lot. It highlights the logical conclusion - the end result of government interference. It destroys the pretense under which he is able to fool many people ("I am for Capitalism", "nobody is messing with private healthcare", etc.). It diminishes his credibility because his claims are blatantly contradicted by his own statements regarding single-payer universal health care.

[SD26]

Within the context of health care debate, exposing his "true intentions" matters a lot. It highlights the logical conclusion - the end result of government interference. It destroys the pretense under which he is able to fool many people ("I am for Capitalism", "nobody is messing with private healthcare", etc.). It diminishes his credibility because his claims are blatantly contradicted by his own statements regarding single-payer universal health care.

There is already plenty of government interference in US health care. He's proposing more. Agreed, it does matter. Bad ideas must be shown for what they are. Individual rights are paramount.

[aleph_0]

They want single payer, which means you have no rights. What the dems are saying regarding being "allowed" to keep your plan is a way to appease the crowds so that they can push their agenda through sneakily in small portions. So, what the Marine said was a perfectly placed salvo across the bow of the statist ship.

Additionally, the idea that you can keep your plan and nothing will change is preposterous. Introducing a new competitor to a field which can fix its own prices and which essentially takes money from all other companies to fund itself will impact prices, quantity and quality of health care available.

Despite being able to keep your current plan these side effects will undoubtedly have a large negative effect on all in the health care market

Obama says a lot of things. Whether or not you trust what he says is another matter. I don't (trust him). I am reminded of a Penn and Teller skit:

"I'm not taking pie from you, I'm giving it to me."

All of these are fair points, but were not the Marine's point. He was saying, "My plan is not yours to allow me to keep," in response to the administration saying, "There may be some confusion over the point, so let's make it clear: We're not taking your plan away." So the content of what the Marine said wasn't really addressing the content of the administration's message. It may have been a warning shot with a good tone, but the content wasn't exactly apt.

[Thales]

All of these are fair points, but were not the Marine's point. He was saying, "My plan is not yours to allow me to keep," in response to the administration saying, "There may be some confusion over the point, so let's make it clear: We're not taking your plan away." So the content of what the Marine said wasn't really addressing the content of the administration's message. It may have been a warning shot with a good tone, but the content wasn't exactly apt.

I disagree. It was very much on target. These people assume they have the right to do what they want with our health care. They don't. That is what he's going after.

And the "plan" -- which is a euphemism, it's really a government power grab -- is 1000+ pages of lawyerese. These things are virtually unreadable, which is all the more reason to run from them. Jefferson said that laws should be understandable to the average man. These are unreadable to the average man, let alone a member of Congress.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Thales

[softwareNerd]

All of these are fair points, but were not the Marine's point. He was saying, "My plan is not yours to allow me to keep," in response to the administration saying, "There may be some confusion over the point, so let's make it clear: We're not taking your plan away." So the content of what the Marine said wasn't really addressing the content of the administration's message. It may have been a warning shot with a good tone, but the content wasn't exactly apt.

I really don't get your point.

Firstly, if someone says "You misunderstood, I am not going to do this", it is perfectly apt to reply "It is not your right to do it".

Why would you not consider the obvious though implicit message when someone is communicating? The full message of the administration is that they have the right to change the plan, and that they have been misunderstood about whether they are going to exercise that supposed right. Why should one shrink one's mind down to the explicit message alone; that is the exact way a con man gets people to play his game. The unsaid must be addressed if it is more important.

If the marine were to play along with the government, he could have asked "what assurances can you give that you will not change my plan"? But, that would be implicitly assenting to their underlying implicit message. It was absolutely critical that he calll them on the fundamentals.

Edited August 28, 2009 by softwareNerd

[Andrew Grathwohl]

I don't find this marine to be much more honorable in his position or his integrity than the oafish congressman who he yelled down.

Watch the Hannity interview. This goof screams bloody murder as if it was only the past 250 days that has brought us to this position of "National Socialism." He is so unperceptive that he fails to realize and point out the damage that has been continuously inflicted upon this country for his entire life. He seems to be a redneck conservative conspiracy theorist. Maybe even a Ron Paul supporter, from the language he invoked.