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So as I said in the game I'm working on a basic wiki page for the new party. I see it as being our chief means of communicating the party's platform to the rest of the players.

With that in mind I'd like to start it with a preamble telling where we derive our policy from and then get into the policy from there.

Because it will be virtually impossible to apply Objectivism properly within the confines of the game I would like to avoid using that term in any reference to the Party itself. That is not to say that articles in newspapers and such could not refer directly to those principals, but because compromise is necessary within the game I'd rather not lay any claim to it being explicitly Objectivist.

So I've started with this... (Wiki formatting included)

==General==

The '''Kapitalist Partiet''' is a political party in eNorway founded on specific principals.

Chief among these is the [[Trader Principal]]; that men enter into agreements with others in order to exchange value for value. Next is the principal of [[Non-initiation of force]], that in order to trade all exchanges between free men must be voluntary, free of force and/or fraud. These principals draw their legitimacy from the inalienable right of all men to live their own lives for their own sake.

==Platform==

===Economy===

===Defence===

===Foreign Affairs==

==The Party==

===Leader===

===Deputy Leader===

===Representation in Congress===

Obviously most of this will be developed over time but I'd like to get the basics settled and as I said, I need help with this... (and possibly in general :))

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==General==

The '''Kapitalist Partiet''' is a political party in eNorway founded on specific principals.

Chief among these is the [[Trader Principal]]; that men enter into agreements with others in order to exchange value for value. Next is the principal of [[Non-initiation of force]], that in order to trade all exchanges between free men must be voluntary, free of force and/or fraud. These principals draw their legitimacy from the inalienable right of all men to live their own lives for their own sake.

==Platform==

What this should contain?

===Economy===

Reduce Income and Import taxes while increasing the VAT if neccessary.

===Defence===

Seek closer relations with both Scandinavian and EDEN countries; have constant training wars.

===Foreign Affairs==

Try to find new allies whenever possible.

==The Party==

"Capitalist Party" or "Individualist Party"

===Leader===

I could do it.

===Deputy Leader===

===Representation in Congress===

One from each region we have people in. At least.

That should clear something up ;)

Edited by Juxtys
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The three points which I think are most important in this context are that (1) taxation kills, (2) trade should be unrestricted and (3) force is proper only when it is retaliatory. I would be careful about implying that eNorge has engaged in aggressive attacks, unless we know it's true (it's hard to sort out history). Economic issues should lead, IMO.

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The party is created, it has a Wiki page and although I made an icon for it, it doesn't want to show on the party's main page. :(

Justys is now the party president. I resigned from the job. I'm sure he would submit to a vote if there are any challengers though.

Oh, the money that you pay to become a member of the party doesn't go to the party. :)

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This is a point that needs discussion here (from Juxtys): "Reduce Income and Import taxes while increasing the VAT if necessary." It's the "while increasing" clause that I don't like. Why would it be necessary? Why would increased VAT be better than income and import taxes as they are? Taxes are taxes are evil, and it doesn't make any sense to say that one tax is a better tax. The underlying question is, what does the government need money for? Answer 1 is generic welfare -- the 20 NOK new-player trygd, which high taxation has made a virtual necessity. There don't seem to be any accounting books that show where the money goes.

So I don't think it is wise to presume that "it is necessary", and I would strike that last clause. I would not cede the moral high ground on taxation.

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I agree David, but I believe that the money is for the government to buy things like hospitals which run like 900 gold for a Q1. I'm sure individuals would/could contribute to buying a hospital but as it stands there is no way to control who uses them to who pays for them. The game is slanted toward socialism in that way.

I don't know perhaps a letter to the creators could change that, but needless to say we have to play within the present construct and rules of the game.

I moved from Svalbard & Jan Mayen to Vestlandet because there was no hospital in S&JM and I'm back up to 100% health because I was able to fight in a war and make use of the hospital. That is the reality of this game.

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A hospital and a defense system seem to be the main items of government spend. The assumption is that others will attack sooner or later. Perhaps a country should reduce itself to a single region (why buy 5 hospitals and 5 defense systems) and then and have a Q5 hospital (allows even beginners to fight 5 times a day and be mended), lots of alliances, and a Q5 defense system.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey guys,

I'm sorry I've been kind of inactive. I see we have our own party now, so that's cool :lol: I added my candidacy to the list of potential congress members. I think if we get about 4-5 votes per person we could probably elect quite a few people; only some people end up voting in the country and certain members get a lot of votes, so that means that it's quite easy to get a substantial minority =)

I'll make sure to be more active in the next few months, my school was a little insane lately.

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I'm going to move to cheese land (Ostlandet) before the election; it has a hospital and CW's running, and I think Vestland has enough of us that we can probably elect Maarten and Juxtys. Maarten, you may want to stay put, but maybe folks in Svalbard or Florida (speaking of polar opposites) inclined to move might move to Ostland.

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We have essentially been challenged through many comments to show how voluntary taxation can work. I've been thinking of just how we can go about doing that besides the NorwayLotto, which I think is too high of a focus for the moment. Something that we can focus on that is not as broad as the whole budget of eNorway is building hospitals.

I know that many have said that they see no benefit for having multiple hospitals in the country, and it seems to have become part of the party platform due to various comments by party members. However, this is not a good way to promote the party, and it's not necessarily bad to have multiple hospitals. In fact, I think it's good to have hospitals in every region, especially the more important ones that have resources. Hospitals allow for higher citizen levels and stronger citizens for war. By having hospitals in the lower populated regions, immigration is promoted and regions--and nation--can be defended better. Additionally, the nation's (game's) political system is somewhat dependent on regions, since congressional nominees are selected by region.

With that in mind, I propose that we start building the infrastructure for voluntary funding of the government, starting with hospitals. If the party wants to get behind this idea, then we need to figure out the organizational method for funding these hospitals. There can be the creation of either one organization for the general funding and purchase of hospitals, or multiple organizations can be created for specific regions. For example, the eNorway Hospital Fund, for all eNorway citizens to participate, with the government responsible for selecting where a hospital would be installed using the funds; or the Trondelag Hospital Fund, which will focus primarily on receiving funds from Trondelag citizens themselves, but also eNorway citizens. Once the infrastructure is in place, an advertisement campaign would be launched--which seems to be fairly cheap--focused on the particular fund's target audience.

What do you all think about this? I really think this is our best opportunity to create and utilize voluntary methods for funding government operations. The people in these regions want a hospital, those in the higher populated regions want to move to these lower populated ones, and we can put something in place to allow them to work toward getting a hospital. This approach is more modular than the NorwayLotto. If it works, we can create other institutions for funding budget items, like training wars.

Edited by RussK
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I think that's a pretty good idea. I can contribute some seed money to the organization as well; does anyone know whether we can buy hospitals anywhere and then deploy them? How do the mechanics of that work? If we can find them somewhere else for a bargain we can buy them cheap that way and it'd be a lot easier to pull off, and then just advertise for voluntary donations.

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RussK,

If people are to be convinced to contribute, I think they will want to have a feel of what they're being asked. So, do you know the approximate cost of a hospital? If the price is variable, is there a way -- using the contract-enforcement system that the game has in place -- to "pre-negotiate" a price with some hospital-builder?

I think the biggest hurdle in a voluntary system is people's fear of free-riders. Many people think this way: "I am willing to pay, but if there are too many free-riders, then I would be better off having the government force others to pay." I think that one way to reduce such doubts it to add a commitment that people will get their money back if the total contributions do not come up to a certain number (enough to buy the hospital) by a certain date.

Ideally, people would simply be able to be charged for use of a hospital; but, I suppose there's no way to do that easily in this game.

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I think that's a pretty good idea. I can contribute some seed money to the organization as well; does anyone know whether we can buy hospitals anywhere and then deploy them? How do the mechanics of that work? If we can find them somewhere else for a bargain we can buy them cheap that way and it'd be a lot easier to pull off, and then just advertise for voluntary donations.

Not everything is available to our market, and only governments can buy them. That's just the way the game was created.

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If people are to be convinced to contribute, I think they will want to have a feel of what they're being asked. So, do you know the approximate cost of a hospital? If the price is variable, is there a way -- using the contract-enforcement system that the game has in place -- to "pre-negotiate" a price with some hospital-builder?

Yeah, I'm looking into it. From what I've learned from the wiki, the quality of the hospital is dependent on the amount of wood used. I'll probably communicate with the only hospital builder in eNorway, and ask him for the details. But as you said, the approximate, or even an agreed on price with a builder, would have to be laid out in the plan and in the advertisements.

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I’ll be interested to see how cooperative they are in providing information about cost, since this is a front for a government operation. One problem that they are facing is employees: they have only two employees with skill just above 4. The pool of construction employee with skills at 4+ is pretty small, and they are hoping to do the job with high-quality employees. Q4 Harima has 14 4+ employees. The interesting thing is that Q4 has responded to Universal’s job campaign by offering 1 NOK more than Universal’s offer, for each category. I suspect they will also eventually face a wood shortage. Thus I am skeptical that they will be able to create a finished product.

But just assuming for a moment that wishing can make it so :) a not totally unreasonable hope would be to have 10 employees at level 5, with an average health of 85% and everybody works every day. Then each worker produced 3.04 units a day, i.e. the company can generate 30.4 daily units. It takes 2000 units to make a hospital, so in 66 days they could create a hospital. Using the current market wage figures for level 5 (28 NOK), that’s 66*10*28 = 18,480 NOK labor cost. Materials (10,000 wood) at current raw prices would be about 8,700 NOK, so total 27,180 NOK = 312 gold.

The market price for a Q5 hospital seems to be around 250 gold.

I don’t understand why they decided to go DYI: here’s the discussion (negligible specifics, just posturing). They are up-front financing this through some kind of shady money laundering scheme using "Platoon Wolf". Presumably there's a contract out there, but you can't search contracts.

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