AmoProbos Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 thoughts? reactions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) I still continue to be impressed with the President's speech giving ability. On the topic of health care, I don't have much of anything new to add, except that Obama is presenting the issue as not being set ideologically, meaning compromises can be made. He distanced the issue from the strongest ideological camps among the republicans and democrats; from the current proposed single payer notion in the main democrat camp, to a proposal for government health care for those who cannot afford it--I intended to include the main republican position he spoke about in this distancing process, but it has temporarily slipped my mind. Of course, this will most likely do little to prevent the single payer system. In showing his distance from both ideological extremes of the issue, he also gave credence to republican tort reform. How much of it was lip service, I don't know, nor do I really care. After the speech, the GOP once again relied on a rookie, for lack of a better word. Why they keep airing these things live, with these rookie people, I just don't get. What I do know is that every time they've tried to rebuff an Obama speech, with Bobby Jindal making the first attempt, they've failed horribly; and I'm not too upset about that. Given this, I'm not too surprised that people still throw around the idea of Newt Ginrich; he spoke well in front of the camera. Newt also probably would have wanted to do the rebuff speech himself, knowing how crucial the time was, instead of throwing out some unknown doctor. The least the GOP could have done was have one of their 'leaders' stand with the doctor, have a few words, and then let the doctor cover the rest. Edited September 10, 2009 by RussK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 The GOP has no leadership, for all intents and purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 The GOP has no leadership, for all intents and purposes. Quite obvious after tonight. I forgot to add that instead of airing that counter speech live, they should have simply taped it instead, so they could improve it and give pointers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 The speech is a waste of breath to anyone who has strong political opinions. Instead, Obama's main objective in this speech was to address the middle-of-road "independent" voter. Even if such a person was not listening, the idea was to provide enough fodder that would be picked up and replayed to this target audience. Judged against that objective it was an excellent speech and most media that the middle-of-road independent voter listens to will portray it as such. That means that activism against increasing socialism in Healthcare is even more important in the next few weeks. If it is at all possible to deflate the boost from this speech, there's little chance of another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleIPA Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 The GOP has no leadership, for all intents and purposes. Even more upsetting than Obama's speech was the republican's response to it. The republicans are bankrupt, and leave no options in 2010 for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 The speech is a waste of breath to anyone who has strong political opinions. Instead, Obama's main objective in this speech was to address the middle-of-road "independent" voter. Even if such a person was not listening, the idea was to provide enough fodder that would be picked up and replayed to this target audience. Judged against that objective it was an excellent speech and most media that the middle-of-road independent voter listens to will portray it as such. That means that activism against increasing socialism in Healthcare is even more important in the next few weeks. If it is at all possible to deflate the boost from this speech, there's little chance of another. Agreed. The distancing crap he did was just politics as usual, centrist compromise that got us here in the first place--just look at the examples he gave from Teddy Roosevelt to Social Security. Another thing I forgot to add in my initial post was that the speech helped solidify Obama as a more typical type of politician--given the proposed compromising--and less as a radical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gags Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Did one of the Republicans shout "Liar!" during the speech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Did one of the Republicans shout "Liar!" during the speech? I didn't hear that, but I could have missed it with all the yelling in general. Did anyone hear what sounded like a rolling glass during a quiet moment of the speech, when Obama was making an emotional point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Did one of the Republicans shout "Liar!" during the speech?Yup, but he's apologized. It is really a poor move when you're trying to appeal to independents, who will simply label you as a nay-sayer. Edited September 10, 2009 by softwareNerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Yup, but he's apologized. It is really a poor move when you're trying to appeal to independents, who will simply label you as a nay-sayer. Ahh, now I know why I missed it. When Obama started speaking about myths, I went outside for about two minutes to deal with a phone call. It must have been very obvious for those there, given the descriptions in that article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandonWalsh Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I didn't hear that, but I could have missed it with all the yelling in general. Did anyone hear what sounded like a rolling glass during a quiet moment of the speech, when Obama was making an emotional point? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=proX-KR1ud0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Yup, but he's apologized. It is really a poor move when you're trying to appeal to independents, who will simply label you as a nay-sayer. You know, the speech aside, I've been wondering about that remark. I mean, I don't know how I feel about it. Was it disrespectful? Appropriate? The guy has some huevos, but the moment seemed off. It just made the GOP look bad if nothing else. But I seriously wondered what would happen if someone just stood up and told the President to shove it? Oh and I forgot to add that I seriously thought a shouting match was about to take place. But Pelosi just stared at the guy for the rest of the time. Really unflattering stare too. Edited September 10, 2009 by Sabre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckleslord Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 While I do disagree with the President on alot of points, i must say he is quite the speech-giver. I remember nodding at points I don't agree with, he is quite the persuader. Overall, while I do hate the healthcare reform in general (in this particular direction) I do have to say that this is the best option for the current time (Ie. a Democratically controlled congress, and no party to stand against them that I support (yeah, republicans need to get back into shape)). I could live with a public option, and all of the reforms that go with it, for now. especially a call for everyone to get health insurance and the reassessment of malpractice laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD26 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 So, when that guy yelled, "You lie," what was he referring to specifically in Obama's speech? Obama gives a good speech. Great, but that's not a protection of individual rights. What is he going to do for individuals? Entertainment is not a reason to have one as president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 So, when that guy yelled, "You lie," what was he referring to specifically in Obama's speech?It came right after Obama said his plan would not cover illegal immigrants. Too bad that someone from the GOP chose that point to shout. Worse than pathetic. Obama gives a good speech. Great, but that's not a protection of individual rights. What is he going to do for individuals? Entertainment is not a reason to have one as president.It was not a great speech in the sense of being a something that would move a person with well-considered views toward his position. However, it was great in the sense of achieving his intent of addressing those who are not sure and who are a bit confused about politics --- people in the middle of the road. Still, hopefully there will be some intelligent analysis over the next few days to make clear that the President was talking a bunch of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 The republicans are not on our side. They are not speaking for those who are showing up in townhalls. They have long been appeasers of the left, and thus their biggest enablers. So, I mean, don't be surprised by the people they trot out as their spokesmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I intended to include the main republican position he spoke about in this distancing process, but it has temporarily slipped my mind. No healthcare for illegal immigrants abortion is murder damn we want back in power because our favorite interest groups are getting less pork than they're used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2046 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I thought the "You lie!" was awesome when I first heard about it. Kind of disappointed that it was in response to illegal immigration, but I think I was even more disappointed when he apologized for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gags Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 There were some other strange moments in the speech. At one point I caught a glimpse of a Republican senator holding a piece of paper that looked like it had "RULES" written on it. I can only assume that was some sort of attempt to make the Dems abide by the regular senate rules and not use the budget reconciliation procedure. That procedure would allow them to put a bill through with 51 votes instead of the normal fillibuster-proof 60 votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) There were some other strange moments in the speech. At one point I caught a glimpse of a Republican senator holding a piece of paper that looked like it had "RULES" written on it. I can only assume that was some sort of attempt to make the Dems abide by the regular senate rules and not use the budget reconciliation procedure. That procedure would allow them to put a bill through with 51 votes instead of the normal fillibuster-proof 60 votes. I didn't see that, but Louis Gohmert kept holding up signs he made on writing paper. I think one of them was written in green highlighter. Nothing says I'm a respectable congressman like holding up handwritten signs, using green ink, on 8x11 paper. Edited September 10, 2009 by RussK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD26 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 There were some other strange moments in the speech. At one point I caught a glimpse of a Republican senator holding a piece of paper that looked like it had "RULES" written on it. I can only assume that was some sort of attempt to make the Dems abide by the regular senate rules and not use the budget reconciliation procedure. That procedure would allow them to put a bill through with 51 votes instead of the normal fillibuster-proof 60 votes. Don't know exactly what was on the paper, but I understand there were some that brought copies of their alternatives, different amendments, and the like to the speech. I think they may have made little signs in reference to that for when BHO talks about no alternatives...but my understanding is that he has cut off talking with the other side since around April on this. I supposed he doesn't need to talk if he's just deciding to do democracy/socialist rather than constitutional republic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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