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"Does he really deserve that salary?"

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Ifat Glassman
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Why would categorizing it under morality mean that applying "deserve" to describe an emotional reward or punishment is invalid?

it's not and i didn't try to claim differently.

But i would like to defend my suggestion by your examples, the categories are painted in orange:

  1. A criminal; Action: harming someone unjustly. [Action of] Punishment: Being put in jail. From whom: From every man in society, represented by the state.
    Law

  2. A good parent; Action: All the actions over the years of taking care of his/her kids. [Action of] Reward: Children's love. From whom: Kids.
    Morality

  3. A man of honor; Action: The actions according to one's honorable character, like telling the truth, trading honestly, keeping one's word etc'. [Action of] Reward: Respectful behavior from other people. From whom: Other people who know this guy.
    Morality

  4. A costumer; Action: paying for a product according to an agreement with the seller. [Action of] Reward: 1 pound of potatoes the costumer has paid for. No more, no less. From whom: Seller.
    Economy

  5. A man with a guilt trip due to an altruistic premise. Action: Judging oneself to be bad for not sacrificing a value. [Action of] reward: correcting one's feelings of guilt. From whom: Oneself.
    Morality

  6. Two people catching a fish together. Action: catching a fish. [Action of] Reward: allowing the other person to enjoy the value of the fish (as a meal or as payment by selling it). From whom: Each of the two people.
    Morality / Economy (depneds on the context)

  7. A worker. Action: doing one's job, providing the value that was agreed on by the contract with the employer. [Action of] Reward: Getting paid one's salary. Getting one's performance be recognized. From whom: Employer.
    Economy

  8. A man best qualified for a job. Action: Going to a job interview, demonstrating his skills. [Action of] Reward: Getting the job. From whom: The interviewer/ interviewers/ company.
    Culture

Reservations anyone?

Edited by Uriah
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The issues is keeping the hierarchy relation straight. It is not clear to me that 'deserve' is one of the referents of justice, or a synonym or aspect of justice.

How is it clear to you that bringing up children has anything to do with "deserving" something or any of the other examples? All of the examples assume that there is a relationship between what is described and someone deserving something from someone else. Presenting a case in which acting unjustly earns someone a punishment is not much different than the others.

In any case, if you don't like it, you can replace "acting unjustly" with "a criminal who initiated the use of force". Will that eliminate the problem?

Not really. I won't be judging his actions as just or unjust explicitly, but I will still assume that those actions (implicitly unjust) earned him a punishment.

You could raise the same objection about any other example: "I don't see why caring for someone/ moral character... have anything to do with deserving". Justice happens to be broader than these, but for the purpose of these examples it doesn't matter.

Main point is that I start with a list of examples that I assume to be correct (a correct judgment of someone deserving something), with no explanation why it is so (because of an unjust action, a moral character etc') and then proceed to look at the common ground.

How about we drop it? I don't see any value coming out of this. I prefer to identify the standard and demonstrate how it applies in each example. I could use some help; how about you take the first 5 I'll take the rest? (or if anyone wishes to take on this task, you're most welcome).

Identifying a rational standard to judge what one deserves is required if one wants to challenge a marxist (that claims the standard is effort) or a communist (if there is much difference) who claims the standard is need. Maybe the standard is an agreement, contract or law? Obviously not. One can make an unjust law determining some "deserve" something which they don't actually deserve. Point is, a proper standard needs to be identified.

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Main point is that I start with a list of examples that I assume to be correct (a correct judgment of someone deserving something), with no explanation why it is so (because of an unjust action, a moral character etc') and then proceed to look at the common ground.

Assumed premises can justify anything. Is this technique something you learned in Objectivism Through Induction?

If your audience is readers committed to learning Objectivism, perhaps this has some small value in that any increase in integration is helpful. But if you want to argue with Marxists there is a need to be rigorous. Simply assuming a starting point will not be effective because they will rightly attack your assumed evaluations. Consider:

7. A worker. Action: doing one's job, providing the value that was agreed on by the contract with the employer. [Action of] Reward: Getting paid one's salary. Getting one's performance be recognized. From whom: Employer.

A Marxist will dispute this example of deserve, as actually a counter-example of being exploited because a business cannot be profitable unless the salary paid is less than the value of the work.

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