TheEgoist Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=36899 So it is confirmed this lunatic also happened to be an Islamic lunatic. But I'm sure his peaceful and tolerant religion had nothing to do with him shooting up a military fort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0918 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 This guy was on Obama's Homeland Security transitionary task force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourcet Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=36899 So it is confirmed this lunatic also happened to be an Islamic lunatic. But I'm sure his peaceful and tolerant religion had nothing to do with him shooting up a military fort. What do you think should happen so this doesn't happen again? prevent muslims from joining the military? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0918 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) What do you think should happen so this doesn't happen again? prevent muslims from joining the military? That's easy. Let soldiers have bullets in their guns. The second he burst into the room, he'd have been taken down. Edited November 6, 2009 by brian0918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2046 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 What do you think should happen so this doesn't happen again? prevent muslims from joining the military? Not ones that are still mentally in the sixth century, no. But, I think Hassan had wanted to leave the military, but was prevented from doing so. Not that that necessitated him to commit violence on anyone, that was his choice for which he alone is morally responsible for, (barring he was mentally ill) but in the free world, people can change jobs whenever they want to. Only a slave is threatened with legalized murder or jail for wanting to change jobs, as the military has legal authority to do. Why wasn't he allowed to leave the Army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgoist Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 It is looking like this guy was more than just a Muslim - he was mentally disturbed. Islam seems to be the tool by which he was able to actually commit such an insane act of cruelty. As for not allowing Muslims in the military, that would be silly. THere are few Muslims in there now. If we didn't allow them, they would just lie anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD26 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Why wasn't he allowed to leave the Army? Don't know. He made a commitment. What was his term? Looks as though he was an intern, a resident and then a fellow at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington D.C From 2003 through this summer. So, that looks as though his entire education was funded based on his voluntary contract with the US Army. http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/...ce=rss_breaking If he was actually part of that transition team (a psychatrist working for the transition of Homeland Security?) as a Captain, non field grade officer, you'd think he would have plenty of connections politically to get out if he wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Not ones that are still mentally in the sixth century, no. But, I think Hassan had wanted to leave the military, but was prevented from doing so. Not that that necessitated him to commit violence on anyone, that was his choice for which he alone is morally responsible for, (barring he was mentally ill) but in the free world, people can change jobs whenever they want to. Only a slave is threatened with legalized murder or jail for wanting to change jobs, as the military has legal authority to do. Why wasn't he allowed to leave the Army? He wasn't allowed to leave the army because the army needs all of its professionals. The real question is why wasn't he dishonorably discharged for his open advocacy of violence to protect muslims, which is treasonous given that there are muslims that have declared war on the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollardoctrinaire Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Just proves Muslims are evil and Islam is a dangerous doctrine. All religions are evil, but Islam is the worst, almost as bad as, but worse than Christianity/socialism/fascism. If Ayn Rand were alive today, she would have been on the forefront of the American capitalist war against Muslims and Islam. This incident is sick and disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD26 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=36899 So it is confirmed this lunatic also happened to be an Islamic lunatic. But I'm sure his peaceful and tolerant religion had nothing to do with him shooting up a military fort. Sounds like the story is being countered... http://blogs.gwhatchet.com/newsroom/tag/hspi/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 What do you think should happen so this doesn't happen again? prevent muslims from joining the military? Just the ones who expressed anti American opinions in the past. Only a slave is threatened with legalized murder or jail for wanting to change jobs, as the military has legal authority to do. Why wasn't he allowed to leave the Army? Soldiers will face jail time (no, not the death penalty, you are ill informed about that), for the same reason anyone else will face jail time: for breach of contract. Calling that slavery is absurd. The reason why contracts are made in a specific way when the government hires soldiers stems from the nature of the job. Soldiers are not payed to peal potatoes on various bases around the World, they are hired so that they will go to war if one occurs. But, that requires training and constant readiness, and the only way to accomplish that is through longer term contracts, without the posibility to opt out without good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjutor Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I hope he survives his injuries so he can be put on trial and executed for his actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgoist Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Just proves Muslims are evil and Islam is a dangerous doctrine. All religions are evil, but Islam is the worst, almost as bad as, but worse than Christianity/socialism/fascism. If Ayn Rand were alive today, she would have been on the forefront of the American capitalist war against Muslims and Islam. This incident is sick and disgusting. This is quite a silly statement to make. Certainly there are evil Muslims, but plenty of Muslims, especially in this country, are as decent as your average Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Wow I am seeing a lot of unjustified hate and generalizations towards Muslims on here. I think some of you need to check yourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 From what I've heard about this Maj. Hassan, it would be hard to call him an Islamist, of the likes that we are at war with. Of course, the investigations are still on going, and much more information is likely to come out. My current opinion is that this person most likely committed this act due to factors ranging job related issues to other personal problems (some sort of victimization and isolation), with Islam being more of a solidifying factor or rallying point after he went off the deep end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuringAI Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Wow I am seeing a lot of unjustified hate and generalizations towards Muslims on here. I think some of you need to check yourselves. That's because a number of people here don't realize that Objectivism absolutely and unapoloetically identifies racism as a vice. Muslim is a race. Islam is a religion. It's okay to say everybody who willingly follows islam is evil, just not to say that all muslims are evil because it's not their choice to be muslim. Edited November 7, 2009 by TuringAI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) That's because a number of people here don't realize that Objectivism absolutely and unapoloetically identifies racism as a vice. Muslim is a race. Islam is a religion. It's okay to say everybody who willingly follows islam is evil, just not to say that all muslims are evil because it's not their choice to be muslim. That is wrong. Islam is the religion. Muslim a person who follows Islam. The relation between the words is exactly parallel to Buddhist/Buddhism or Christian/Christianity. edit: a better parallel would be Mohammedan/Mohammedism, perhaps even using their preferred terms grants too much. Edited November 7, 2009 by Grames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01503 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I was told earlier today that his religion should not be a factor at all, because he was obviously a nutcase. However, in light of some condemning information, I think it has become undeniable that Islam played a major role in what he did. Army psychiatrist Major Hasan had killed 13 and left 31 injured after he jumped on to a desk screaming 'Allahu Akbar' - God in Great - and fired on defenceless colleagues... And the quietly devout Muslim turned toward fanaticism, blogging his support for suicide bombers on Internet sites and feeling increasingly alienated from colleagues. Bold added, source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/...-army-base.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgoist Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 That's because a number of people here don't realize that Objectivism absolutely and unapoloetically identifies racism as a vice. Muslim is a race. Islam is a religion. It's okay to say everybody who willingly follows islam is evil, just not to say that all muslims are evil because it's not their choice to be muslim. This is silly. Grames already pointed it out. Muslim is an adherent of Islam. Now, if you were to hear someone say all Arabs or blacks (The two "races" that make up most of Islam's constituents) are inferior, that would be racism Objectivism rejects Islam and counts Muslims as being irrational for the same reasons they consider Christians, nominalists, Kantian philosophers, Nihilists, Pagans, Buddhists and plenty of other religions and philosophic trends that are inherently anti-reality and anti-reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Yeah I am not sure where you got the idea Muslim is a race, it is someone who believes in islam. It even means translated someone who submits to god, there are not racial connotations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim I am just curious out of these people who are saying that all Muslims are evil if they are willing to carry this over to all Christians are evil, etc. As far as the shooter himself, I would say Russk's evaluation is the most appropriate, especially given the current information available, as well as this most likely being the case as a general rule. Edited November 7, 2009 by Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0918 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) This is quite a silly statement to make. Certainly there are evil Muslims, but plenty of Muslims, especially in this country, are as decent as your average Christian. Really, by saying that all Muslims are evil, you're giving them too much credit for consistency. Islam is fundamentally contrary to one's personal values, so most Muslims accept Islam only superficially - the same goes for Christians and Christianity. The ones you have to look out for are those that are consistent in their bad principles. So Islam is evil as an idea, but most Muslims are not evil in their actions. Edited November 7, 2009 by brian0918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollardoctrinaire Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) I was told earlier today that his religion should not be a factor at all, because he was obviously a nutcase. However, in light of some condemning information, I think it has become undeniable that Islam played a major role in what he did. The fact that he shouted Allahu Akbar is proof enough that he was motivated by Islam. I'm not convinced that Muslim is a race. By attacking Muslims, we are attacking Islam in the similar way that by attacking Christians for their evil actions, we are attacking Christianity. This incident makes me so angry for the brave soldiers in the American army to be attacked by Muslims within their own ranks. The depths to which we as a so-called capitalist have sunk is truly depressing. Edited November 7, 2009 by dollardoctrinaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 The fact that he shouted Allahu Akbar is proof enough that he was motivated by Islam. I'm not convinced that Muslim is a race. By attacking Muslims, we are attacking Islam in the similar way that by attacking Christians for their evil actions, we are attacking Christianity. This incident makes me so angry for the brave soldiers in the American army to be attacked by Muslims within their own ranks. The depths to which we as a so-called capitalist have sunk is truly depressing. For the love of Christ, how many times do you need it explained that your hatred of Muslims has nothing to do with Objectivism or Capitalism. And no, what he shouted is not proof enough that he was motivated by anything. There's plenty of other proof though that he saw himself as part of an entity that's at war with the US, so his attack is in fact not "an isolated incident", no matter what psychological problems he may have had. But what you're telling us here is that "he did it because he's a Muslim", which is not true, and I worry that you go around telling people that's what you learned from Objectivism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 For the love of Christ, how many times do you need it explained that your hatred of Muslims has nothing to do with Objectivism or Capitalism. And no, what he shouted is not proof enough that he was motivated by anything. There's plenty of other proof though that he saw himself as part of an entity that's at war with the US, so his attack is in fact not "an isolated incident", no matter what psychological problems he may have had. But what you're telling us here is that "he did it because he's a Muslim", which is not true, and I worry that you go around telling people that's what you learned from Objectivism. This. We cannot be sure it was directly due to his islamist beliefs, and that is also an important point. We don't know if he was just a Muslim man that had other problems that led to this or if it was pure islamic extremism (which, frankly, is unlikely as it is not the general rule in these instances). You are trying to label them as being one in the same, when they are not. There are plenty of Muslims that are good and decent people, they just live (half-assedly as someone above just mentioned) bad principles, they are confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 If this guy was mentally unhinged it is probably just as likely that he could have shouted something about Cylons, or had he been a Christian he could have screamed that Lucifer made him do it. It's entirely possible that his religion was nothing more than a convenient excuse. That's the thing about religion. It's so easy to become a hater when your "god" tells you that everyone else is wrong or evil. Religion is a horribly divisive institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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