2046 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington...hito-japan.html This photo will get President Obama a lot of approving nods in Japan this weekend, especially among the older generation of Japanese, who still pay attention to the royal family living in its downtown castle. Very low bows like this are a sign of great respect and deference to a superior. To some in the United States, however, an upright handshake might have looked better. UPDATES: 12:22 p.m. A brief news video has been added below, showing the greeting in this photograph. Contrary to some claims, the video shows no reciprocal bow by the emperor, who traditionally bows to no one. Also note that in Japanese custom, a bow is a sign of respect, and a handshake is a sign of respect. It is one or the other, not both simultaneously. That would be a sign of humility. So what do you think? The White House just plain denied that Obama bowed to the Saudi King Abdullah last time, even though it was on video and has not bowed to any other monarchs since. Should the US President bow to any foreign leaders, ever? http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2009/11/p...t-of-world.html Edited November 15, 2009 by 2046 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th3ranger Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) It seems to me that either bowing or a handshake would be fine especially in this context (Japan). The emperor did bow reciprocally so no disrespect to either side occurred. (Unlike King Abdullah who I don't believe bowed back, and who's country nationalized/looted all the American oil wells in his country, which kinda precludes any signs of respect) I've always liked the idea of bowing anyway, you can keep your hands clean and there is no chance of exchanging germs. *edit* 10:02 added additional comment Upon review of hotairpundit photos, Obama really does seem to be bowing a bit lower than other dignitaries which is hilarious and sad. Moron. Edited November 15, 2009 by th3ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Upon review of hotairpundit photos, Obama really does seem to be bowing a bit lower than other dignitaries which is hilarious and sad.OMG. Do they not have anyone in State who can advise him on this foreign culture stuff? He seems to be an obsequious little toad habitually, as also seen here ,here and here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgoist Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 The child went to grab some brains and found none at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fountainhead777 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I think he just decides to lead by example by bowing down to any authority as he wishes us to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SapereAude Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I work with the Japanese a lot. I see no problem with bowing as a greeting. I bow probably 100+ times a day. It is a simple greeting and sign of respect- so long as both people bow. If the bow is not returned then there is a problem. Actually, I like it better than handshaking, I enjoy the lack of physical contact with strangers.. especially during cold& flu season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 There's bowing as a sign of courtesy and bowing like you would bow to an emperor. In my limited experience, a courtesy bow--that is the equivalent of shaking hands--is little more than a slight inclination of the spine and a tilting of the head. Obama, instead, nearly made a right angle with his spine. And, if you'll notice, there is no reciprocation, suggesting it was more than a courtesy. If he has to bow to a monarch, however, I'd rather it be one from a modern, more-or-less rights-respecting country like Japan, rather than that relic of the medieval world known as Saudi Arabia. Oh wait, he's done that too. Paine and Jefferson are rolling over in their graves. ...though to be fair, John Adams did bow to George III, upon becoming ambassador to England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I see no problem with bowing as a greeting. I bow probably 100+ times a day.Since you're familiar with Japanese bowing standards, can I presume that you recognize that Obama's bow was inappropriate, that it clearly is the bow of an inferior to a superior whereas it should at most have been a bow between equals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SapereAude Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Since you're familiar with Japanese bowing standards, can I presume that you recognize that Obama's bow was inappropriate, that it clearly is the bow of an inferior to a superior whereas it should at most have been a bow between equals? Unfortunately I cannot watch videos on my computer. That's why I said there is nothing wrong with the bow as such but that if it was not reciprocated (equally)there's a problem. Deep or shallow bow is irrelevent as long as both people bow equally as low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0918 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Unfortunately I cannot watch videos on my computer. That's why I said there is nothing wrong with the bow as such but that if it was not reciprocated (equally)there's a problem. Deep or shallow bow is irrelevent as long as both people bow equally as low. There was not an equal bow on the Japanese PM's part. His was more a look of, "what, did you drop something?" Edited November 16, 2009 by brian0918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2046 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 There was not an equal bow on the Japanese PM's part. His was more a look of, "what, did you drop something?" Note that it was the Emperor and Empress, not PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestyle Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) I had previously assumed that his bow to the Saudi king was just a protocol error. After the criticism he got for it, there is no imaginable way the issue was not brought to his attention. So, whatever his reason for this very pronounced bow, it is safe to view it as intentional. We have a president who chooses to bow to power or authority. This is a change. I do view it is evidence of mindset and ideology. I remember hearing his advisor Valerie Jarrett, responding to a question about the White House's tiff with Fox News, state, "... we're going to speak truth to power." I found that so odd considering that she works at the very top level of the most powerful government office on the planet, in all of history really. Edited November 16, 2009 by freestyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Deep or shallow bow is irrelevent as long as both people bow equally as low.Right, and as you can see from these pictures (stills), that is manifestly not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SapereAude Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Right, and as you can see from these pictures (stills), that is manifestly not the case. Wow. Looking at that I had one of those moments where I actually feel physically embarrassed for another person. Shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I don't remember him bowing so low for Queen Elizabeth, maybe that was just because everyone was so concerned with Michelle groping HRH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I don't remember him bowing so low for Queen Elizabeth, maybe that was just because everyone was so concerned with Michelle groping HRH... Her Royal Hiney? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 HEY GAIZ let's assign a lot of meaning to something innocuous like the depth of a bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgoist Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 This is pretty stupid, honestly. Why do we care? Does this affect us? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gags Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 This is pretty stupid, honestly. Why do we care? Does this affect us? Really? Yes it will have an impact on us. I agree with Freestyle in that this is a physical manifestation of his ideology. He thinks this country is in decline and he has gone around the world apologizing for all of America's sins. It's pathetic and our enemies are watching closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgoist Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 How's he apologizing here? It's MEANINGLESS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2046 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) How's he apologizing here? It's MEANINGLESS. It won't cause anything bad to happen to us, it is itself just an effect of Obama's multiculturalism, where he thinks America's virtues are its vices instead. Obama's philosophies will hurt us, the bowing to monarchs is just an effect of that. I don't think the bowing in itself will cause bad things to happen, you'll notice no one is saying the sky is falling because of this bow. It's just disgraceful. Note that he has apologized for the US's virtues in the past, he is the first president that has declined to defend the atomic bombings that ended the second world war, and the embarrassing lack of protocol shown with the bow to Akihito is in part because the way he is doing is indeed in the manner of an apology (past saikeirei level, and coupled with a handshake = grovelling.) He probably wasn't thinking grovelling, but that's partially why it's so embarrassing because you would think he would be better informed on that. Edited November 17, 2009 by 2046 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 This is pretty stupid, honestly. Why do we care? Does this affect us? Really? I'm pretty for sure most of the people who would get really upset over this thing didn't even know Japan still had an emperor until they heard this. He's pretty irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2046 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm pretty for sure most of the people who would get really upset over this thing didn't even know Japan still had an emperor until they heard this. He's pretty irrelevant. I'm pretty for sure that you have no way of knowing such a thing, and it's pretty irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gags Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'm pretty for sure most of the people who would get really upset over this thing didn't even know Japan still had an emperor until they heard this. He's pretty irrelevant. This clearly isn't about the Emperor of Japan. It's about our President's embarassing willingness to accept and even embrace the idea that America is in decline and that this nation really isn't better than any other nation. We're all just citizens of the world. American exceptionalism died with Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 The guy looks the fool. Every other leader was standing tall (as they should being leaders of nations), or at most had courteously tilted his head. The only one to make this kind of gesticulation was Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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