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Oh dear. They may have murdered AGW

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Maarten
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Yeah, but Obama doesn't have the authority to sign any binding agreements, and I doubt it would be affirmed. Sure, he can do some stuff through regulation but that really would be locked down in courts for years. If the environmentalists can play that game, so can businesses.

Senator Inhofe is in Copenhagen I think primarily to rain on their parade and make clear that the President really cannot commit to anything; he's not allowed to negotiate treaties himself.

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Man, talk about showing your colors:

But then [Chavez] wound up to his grand conclusion – 20 minutes after his 5 minute speaking time was supposed to have ended and after quoting everyone from Karl Marx to Jesus Christ - “our revolution seeks to help all people…socialism, the other ghost that is probably wandering around this room, that’s the way to save the planet, capitalism is the road to hell....let’s fight against capitalism and make it obey us.” He won a standing ovation.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/p...f-1225811179614

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Lord Monckton gives a point-by-point refutation of the IPCC leader's talk here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/17/lord...ion

It's pretty impressive - both the leader's corruption and deception, and Monckton's understanding and ability.

That's a nice piece. I've emailed it to all the "warmers" I know. :D

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Yeah, but Obama doesn't have the authority to sign any binding agreements, and I doubt it would be affirmed. Sure, he can do some stuff through regulation but that really would be locked down in courts for years. If the environmentalists can play that game, so can businesses.

Senator Inhofe is in Copenhagen I think primarily to rain on their parade and make clear that the President really cannot commit to anything; he's not allowed to negotiate treaties himself.

We hope. I want to know what actions can be taken by us, the people, if our idiot leaders sign anything or agree to anything that binds us to paying more in taxes in respect of this hoax/fraud/lie/cheat/scam.

I want to add one thing. I think it's no accident they're calling it ClimateGate. This isn't just the work of the scientists on their own cooking data. They were prodded into it at the behest of presidents & prime ministers - so the question is, which ones? We'd have to go back to when the thing started a decade or more ago. Obama may simply have been hoping to cash in. Is it too late for him to reverse his position and take a proper moral stand? He wasn't involved at the outset in cooking data, or urging data be cooked, but if he doesn't stop bleating about combatting climate change soon, he's going to rapidly become as guilty as the ones who did instigate and carry out the fraud.

Edited by AllMenAreIslands
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Copenhagen - Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has promised the United States will help raise $100 billion annually by 2020 to assist poor countries in coping with climate change as long as America's demands for a global warming pledge are met.

"I think it's very essential to the success of how we go forward," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told E&E as she arrived at the Bella Center. "We'll see what the participation will be of other nations, what's certainly appropriate for us to play a leading role in it. So I salute her."

Pelosi is in Copenhagen with 20 other House members...

Full article

Edited by ~Sophia~
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I am so proud of my country , and Africa as a whole. We never miss a chance to get out the begging-bowl and demand, no extort, billions of dollars from the guilty West.

The blame game, of the European colonists, or now, of Western achievement, is what we do best.

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I am so proud of my country , and Africa as a whole. We never miss a chance to get out the begging-bowl and demand, no extort, billions of dollars from the guilty West.

The blame game, of the European colonists, or now, of Western achievement, is what we do best.

This is not about compensating third world countries or lifting them up from poverty. Environmentalists, Gore, Hilary, and the rest of these people can't care less about Africa since they call for slowing down the rate of her industrialization.

This is about power (centralizing it as much as possible on a global scale) and money (carbon trading stalled in the past few days - not a single contract was sold - as people are waiting for the results of Copenhagen meeting). This is red hiding under the umbrella of green. It was never about real science either (not for politicians).

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Sophia, I would argue that the redistribution of wealth from the West to the developing world is part and parcel of the Red hiding under the green.

Absolutely. How pathetic when the delegates at Copenhagen give the Marxist thug Hugo Chavez a standing ovation and then demand a handout from the capitalist countries responsible for creating most of the world's wealth that they're trying to grab.

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Sophia, I would argue that the redistribution of wealth from the West to the developing world is part and parcel of the Red hiding under the green.

It is a small part of the damage - playing the role of a smoke screen for a much greater damage done within the Western world (both in terms of wealth destruction and further loss of freedom).

These funds will not be used to lift Africa from poverty but instead will result in even more corruption and strengthening of military dictatorships. These people know this too. This wealth will be wasted and at the same time they will demand of Africa reductions in industrial growth.

I think it was Sudan's delegation that stated that this is a suicide pact for Africa.

Edited by ~Sophia~
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As far as it goes Copenhagen was not a win for the greenistas, but it also wasn't a triumph of reason or science.

I think the status quo will reign for a little while yet, with the developing world whining for more money, the socialists and their ideological ilk calling for governments to do more to save the planet (human beings be damned) and the pragmatic in government making all, or some of the right green noises while merely hobbling our economy with rules and regulations but not quite killing it.

This has been the norm for so long now... at what point does Atlas shrug?

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This has been the norm for so long now... at what point does Atlas shrug?

That point may come sooner rather than later. As much as the push to restrict carbon use concerns me, I'm far more upset about the fact that socialized healthcare now looks like it will surely pass in the Senate. This country is in a tail spin and all of the parachutes were just thrown out of the back of the plane.

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As far as it goes Copenhagen was not a win for the greenistas, but it also wasn't a triumph of reason or science...This has been the norm for so long now... at what point does Atlas shrug?

Reason Magazine's Friday Funnies is titled "The Climate Change Debate" and can be seen here:

http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/18/friday-funnies

<Φ>aj

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We can joke about the duffases and dumbasses in the climate debate, just as we can laugh at the intrinsicists of the past; the problem is, however, that they can cause considerable harm to man before it is all over. I'm glad the Copenhagen conference went as bad as it did, but that they even had it and wanted to use bogus data to control us is infuriating and frightening at the same time. And I don't know how much the facts are going to change some people's minds, because I don't know that the facts matter to the climate change ideologues. All that matters is to control capitalism, to slow down man, to stop him; and they are serious about that. Certainly keep speaking out to anyone who will listen. I fear, however, that there are a lot of blindly irrational people involved,and they want to take us down with them.

To answer the question of when does Atlas shrug, I think we can still fight it with better ideas and they haven't shut us down yet. So, don't give up. As long as we have a voice and can speak out against the irrational, then that is what we need to be doing. If they start arresting us for being against them, that will be the time to shrug. Free speech is the key.

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So you see, there were a few here who were using Wikipedia as a source and I told them I did not trust it, and, in fact, I knew it was wrong from my studies of GW. Once again I am shown to be right on this issue. :)

On a more serious note, these people are our mortal enemies. :ninja: They are not people worthy of rational debate.

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