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Health Care Bill Passes Senate

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http://www.latimes.com/business/nationworl...0,7801371.story

The senate passed a healthcare reform bill 60-39 which "extends coverage" to 31 million Americans. By this they mean that you are now required by law to have health insurance and insurance companies are required by law to cover all preexisting conditions....but don't worry...your premiums will go down.

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http://www.latimes.com/business/nationworl...0,7801371.story

The senate passed a healthcare reform bill 60-39 which "extends coverage" to 31 million Americans. By this they mean that you are now required by law to have health insurance and insurance companies are required by law to cover all preexisting conditions....but don't worry...your premiums will go down.

It makes me sick.

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It's not law yet. It still has to go to committee to reconcile the House and Senate versions and be signed into law by the Messiah.

:huh:

We gotta be optimistic as Objectivists! Maybe it will fail reconciliation and not go anywhere?!!?!

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It's not law yet. It still has to go to committee to reconcile the House and Senate versions and be signed into law by the Messiah.

I read something yesterday (sorry, can't for the life of me remember the link) that the Dems intend to attempt to bypass doing open committee and just do some closed door strictly partisan negotiations.

Also saw that The Messiah was saying that maybe the fillibuster needs to be done away with as a procedure. :huh:

But most especially I am enjoying the parts of the bill where contrary to Senate rule the bill has sections declaring itself off limits to change by future bodies.

Those who voted for The Messiah have much to answer for. <_<

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We gotta be optimistic as Objectivists! Maybe it will fail reconciliation and not go anywhere?!!?!

I honestly wish I could be optimistic about this but the Dems have already proven that they can all be bought so we can't hope any will resist on principle because they disagree with something in the bill.

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For us, people outside the USA, this news is catastrophic because it sends a message to the rest of the world: if the USA, the beacon of individualism, has chosen this collectivist path, it is because that path should be the right one.

After this, I do not see how in Mexico and the rest of Latin America we will ever consider the "right to health" as a fallacy. I can hear them saying "You see? Even the Americans have realized that people who are well off should provide for those worse off".

Our only hope relies on that 51% or so of voters who do not support this Law. I hope that through their voting they can correct quickly enough the course things are taking, but I am now skeptical. Why? Because once the majority gets benefits from looting the minority, they will hold fast to the evil system.

Just like the frog that does not jump from the bowl with water if it is being heated up slowly enough, you may not feel the need to escape until it is too late.

We can derive a lesson from Venezuela's experience. Hugo Chavez has been imposing a Marxist dictatorship so gradually, so slowly, so gently, that people living there have kept the illusion that this is not really happening, that it will never happen. That somehow, at some point, Chavez will just stop.

And remember, Chavez has been elected and re-elected once and once again by democratic means.

Why? Because the parasites are always larger in number than productive people (until a breaking point is reached and the whole system crashes).

For atheist's God sake, Americans, start designing plan B.

Plan B may be the creation of a new land of freedom in one of the States (Texas? Hawaii? Utah? You name it) and get this State out of Big Government.

The Founding Fathers whose names are so precious to you are just the first of any series of Founding Fathers who will come next, as needed, to defend freedom.

Future generations could recall YOUR names with the same devotion.

If there was in history a Zionist movement that brought millions of Jews to a new State, Israel, Why couldn't a similar international movement bring together free men from all over the world into a new Zion?

Edited by Hotu Matua
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For us, people outside the USA, this news is catastrophic because it sends a message to the rest of the world: if the USA, the beacon of individualism, has chosen this collectivist path, it is because that path should be the right one.

After this, I do not see how in Mexico and the rest of Latin America we will ever consider the "right to health" as a fallacy. I can hear them saying "You see? Even the Americans have realized that people who are well off should provide for those worse off".

Our only hope relies on that 51% or so of voters who do not support this Law. I hope that through their voting they can correct quickly enough the course things are taking, but I am now skeptical. Why? Because once the majority gets benefits from looting the minority, they will hold fast to the evil system.

Just like the frog that does not jump from the bowl with water if it is being heated up slowly enough, you may not feel the need to escape until it is too late.

We can derive a lesson from Venezuela's experience. Hugo Chavez has been imposing a Marxist dictatorship so gradually, so slowly, so gently, that people living there have kept the illusion that this is not really happening, that it will never happen. That somehow, at some point, Chavez will just stop.

And remember, Chavez has been elected and re-elected once and once again by democratic means.

Why? Because the parasites are always larger in number than productive people (until a breaking point is reached and the whole system crashes).

For atheist's God sake, Americans, start designing plan B.

Plan B may be the creation of a new land of freedom in one of the States (Texas? Hawaii? Utah? You name it) and get this State out of Big Government.

The Founding Fathers whose names are so precious to you are just the first of any series of Founding Fathers who will come next, as needed, to defend freedom.

Future generations could recall YOUR names with the same devotion.

If there was in history a Zionist movement that brought millions of Jews to a new State, Israel, Why couldn't a similar international movement bring together free men from all over the world into a new Zion?

Yes lets all secede in Texas!

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http://www.latimes.com/business/nationworl...0,7801371.story

The senate passed a healthcare reform bill 60-39 which "extends coverage" to 31 million Americans. By this they mean that you are now required by law to have health insurance and insurance companies are required by law to cover all preexisting conditions....but don't worry...your premiums will go down.

If you don't purchase your mandatory insurance, you might go to jail.

But then you'll get free health care!

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But most especially I am enjoying the parts of the bill where contrary to Senate rule the bill has sections declaring itself off limits to change by future bodies.

Those who voted for The Messiah have much to answer for. ;)

This is particularly disturbing. My understanding is that they have inserted a provision that requires a supermajority to pass any changes to the bill. That on its face seems unconstitutional.

As for those who supported the Messiah, I'm shocked that his far left agenda surprises anyone. All of the signs were there for you to see.

Edited by gags
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For us, people outside the USA, this news is catastrophic because it sends a message to the rest of the world: if the USA, the beacon of individualism, has chosen this collectivist path, it is because that path should be the right one.

After this, I do not see how in Mexico and the rest of Latin America we will ever consider the "right to health" as a fallacy. I can hear them saying "You see? Even the Americans have realized that people who are well off should provide for those worse off".

Oh, it won't happen in Mexico. I won't say I guarantee it, but it's highly unlikely. Remember our politicians cannot say they're motivated by anything but a desire to help the poor. Well, the poor are already being "helped" by the massive government healthcare infrastructure. You won't hear a single politico in San Lazaro say we need to provide insurance to the middle class, never mind the rich.

If anything after this bill Mexico may have a freer healthcare system than America (and that damns america for sure). We are not required to be insured, after all. true, anyone on a formal payroll has parts of their salary taken to finance the IMSS healthcare system, and government workers on payroll are similarly taxed to finance the ISSSTE. But there are loopholes aplenty. I haven't paid IMSS since the early 90s and dont' ever intend to. Or rather not directly. Plenty of my taxes go there just the same.

It still sucks, of course.

Here's a prediction, though: Americans, especially those in border states, will begin to seek out treatment in Mexico. This already hapepns, on s small scale, with dental offices, which offer lower prices in Mexico. When healthcare rationing begins in the US, private Mexican border hospitals will boom. I guarantee as much.

Of course, there won't be that many American hospitals for Mexican doctors and surgeons to train. So it may not last long.

And that's the consequence that will affect Mexico and the rest of the world: a lot, if not all, of the medical innovations that come from America will now slowly and steadily grind to a halt.

If there was in history a Zionist movement that brought millions of Jews to a new State, Israel, Why couldn't a similar international movement bring together free men from all over the world into a new Zion?

That's been endlessly discussed in this board.

Back on the main point, this is a very bad time for America. What can be done about it? Can you sue or otherwise resort to legal means to keep the governemnt from making you get insurance?

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Back on the main point, this is a very bad time for America. What can be done about it? Can you sue or otherwise resort to legal means to keep the governemnt from making you get insurance?

I've been wondering that too. I'm hoping someone tries to take that fine or jail time up to the supreme court.(and that the court has the good sense to hear it at least.) I would guess that someone would. I just can't see any way to justify forcing someone to buy a product constitutionally. Not that I'm a lawyer, but there's no interstate commerce affected by NOT buying a product. No touching of public property like roads. If it does pass through the courts it will be interesting to see the squirmy justification for it.

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Those who voted for The Messiah have much to answer for. :P

Messiah indeed. The words of Wm. Butler Yeats come to mind:

What rough beast is this,

his hour come 'round at last

slouches toward Bethlehem

waiting to be born.

-- from The Widening Gyre --

Bob Kolker

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I've been wondering that too. I'm hoping someone tries to take that fine or jail time up to the supreme court.(and that the court has the good sense to hear it at least.) I would guess that someone would. I just can't see any way to justify forcing someone to buy a product constitutionally. Not that I'm a lawyer, but there's no interstate commerce affected by NOT buying a product. No touching of public property like roads. If it does pass through the courts it will be interesting to see the squirmy justification for it.

All we can do, at this point, is stifle beaurocracy.

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I've been wondering that too. I'm hoping someone tries to take that fine or jail time up to the supreme court.(and that the court has the good sense to hear it at least.) I would guess that someone would. I just can't see any way to justify forcing someone to buy a product constitutionally. Not that I'm a lawyer, but there's no interstate commerce affected by NOT buying a product. No touching of public property like roads. If it does pass through the courts it will be interesting to see the squirmy justification for it.

Congress ca regulate you (under the interestate commerce clause), if you try to grow wheat for home consumption... because "production of the commodity meant for home consumption... has a substantial effect on supply and demand in the national market for that commodity"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich

If they can twist the interestate commerce clause this way...

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I've been wondering that too. I'm hoping someone tries to take that fine or jail time up to the supreme court.(and that the court has the good sense to hear it at least.) I would guess that someone would. I just can't see any way to justify forcing someone to buy a product constitutionally. Not that I'm a lawyer, but there's no interstate commerce affected by NOT buying a product. No touching of public property like roads. If it does pass through the courts it will be interesting to see the squirmy justification for it.

I hope so, too. But I can't say I expect it. There's the precedent of car insurance, which is mandatory in some states (though you can side-step it by not owning a car, for what little that's worth). A requirement to get health insurance, however, would set an even worse precedent. Why couldn't the government compel you to buy next? A book, a movie, an amount of goods per year, an amount of cash to be spent per year, getting a savings account? Why not?

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