Threat Of Fines And Jail For The Healthy?

[haystack]

I'm a newbie here on the forum and this is my first post. Greetings from Califonia.

My first topic is flu shots. As a current reader of Atlas Shrugged, I see a path that has been traveled before (in AS) in the regulation of flu shots this year in the United States. The elderly, infirmed and those at risk will be eligible, while us healthy producers will be left hung out to dry. I realize the flu is common, but very miserable none-the-less. So, if the at-risk are healthy and the producers get sick, who will do the work? Before vaccination, influenza and other infectious respiratory diseases were the leading cause of death in the United States. Can this happen again?

Now there is a threat of fines and/or jail time for health care workers in at least four states, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Oregon and Wisconson. these are directives issued by various Public Health officials. For example: "It's not rationing," said Massachusetts Public Health Commissioner Christine Ferguson. "It's being rational about how to reduce the number of deaths that could result from a serious flu season." Is this, in deed, rational? I have my doubts.

My employer purchased many injections for us employees through our on-site nurse and doctor. They do this every year as a service to keep us healthy and productive. They purchased these injections in good faith with profits made by the company. Well, The State of California Public Health Dept. has come calling about our injections and will probably confiscate them for "Public" use. I say confiscate because I talked to the nurse about compensation and she laughed at me and said, "doubtful." If I did this it would be called robbery and punishable by law.

Am I seeing a parallel to Hank Reardon in AS? Will it take a trial and a Randian hero to get people to at least care about this? What is the logical conclusion of this altruist behavior?

[AwakeAndFree]

Welcome to Socialized Medicine, pal - where there is never enough of what's really needed, and the only criterion for treatment is misery.

If you care about your life - you will protest on any level open to you, before it is too late.

We must challenge those looters on the basic issues of morality. We must ask them: "Is it moral to cure someone else with my money and let me get sick, or even die, because of your rationing?"

I wonder why the Americans for Free Choice in Medicine didn't release a statement on this yet.

[DavidOdden]

I heard about this tonight, and was utterly appalled. What I find hard to fathom is the legal basis for this.

The question of whether "producers" viz. young, robust and employed people vs. others are more deserving of the vacines is irrelevant. Money talks, so let the loudmouths get the vaccine. Admittedly, I don't really care at all who gets the shots because if I get the flu, I'll feel like crap for a couple of days and move on, so I don't bother with that nonsense.

The closest that we have come to a Randian trial hero in my lifetime is Kevorkian, and you can see how much people cared about the right of a person to his own life, in the wake of that trial. Perhaps they would care more if there were a true hero on trial.

[haystack]

We must challenge those looters on the basic issues of morality. We must ask them: "Is it moral to cure someone else with my money and let me get sick, or even die, because of your rationing?"

I agree, but theirs is a moral relativism in which all things can be justified.

I have been considering trying to purchase an injection through a capitalist nurse or doctor who can see a real opportunity. However, I'm not wealthy, but do have paid sick leave, so this year may be left to the "Special Needs."

[haystack]

The question of whether "producers" viz. young, robust and employed people vs. others are more deserving of the vacines is irrelevant. Money talks, so let the loudmouths get the vaccine. Admittedly, I don't really care at all who gets the shots because if I get the flu, I'll feel like crap for a couple of days and move on, so I don't bother with that nonsense.

You mean which PAC or group of influence has the ear of the "Men in Washington?" I agree.

I have money as well as being a healthy, productive individual. Problem is they have outlawed any doctor in four states from allowing me the right to it all because of my current health status.

My concern for a flu shot avery year is purely selfish. I had the flu in '97 real bad. Turned into an ear infection and bronchitis. Have received a vaccination every year since and have been flu free.

[DavidOdden]

You mean which PAC or group of influence has the ear of the "Men in Washington?" I agree.

No, actually I meant that flu shots are a commodity, just as gasoline and coffee are, and the law of supply and demand addresses this. If it is important to you, you can provide unambiguous evidence of how important it is, by pulling out the checkbook. Of course this does assume a free market economy, where doctors are not jailed for violating the Greatest Common Good ordinance.

Of course you are probably right, if you're implying that AARP, for example, is using pull. I was only speaking of the positive use of money.

[oldsalt]

When asked, "How did this happen?" the only answer I heard was something about contaminated product. So I looked further. Here is what I found:

The CDC caused this shortage. They finagled a low-cost bulk buy backed by the government gun. Because of this, very few companies are producing the vaccine anymore because the government's price barely covers the costs.

The vaccine differs every year. It isn't as though they are producing the same product over and over, but must invest extra man-hours and costly lab work investigating which strain of the flu to culture vaccine for on a yearly basis. Since many fewer companies are producing the vaccine, when there is a problem with one company's product, there's no one left to take up the slack.

Now that the government has entered the market in a big way through the medicare prescription program, we'll see more of this in all areas of pharmaceuticals. This is just a small taste of things to come.

Scary, huh!

[Pericles(MBA)]

I was concerned when I heard this as well.

I not heard any commentators mention that it might not be a good idea to have the government allocate flu vaccines.

[BreathofLife]

Whenever someone brings up this kind of issue I only have two words to say that will solve the problem: "Privatize it!"

but no one listens.