Raw Milk

[CastleBravo]

I've recently been working on my diet and exercise. It has come to my attention that processed foods make me sluggish and weak, especially grains and highly processed meats. I mainly eat coniferous vegetables, grass fed free-range beef, free-range eggs and chicken, about 4 tons of almonds a week and my weight in fruit. Basically I am on a Paleo diet. The results on my body have been pretty amazing.

The only processed food im having trouble converting from is Dairy. Many people claim raw milk has amazing health benefits and is extremely advantageous over pasteurized milk, but when I search for scientific research on the benefits of raw vs. pasteurized milk, I come up empty handed. The only study I found to be helpful was done in the 1930's and it concluded that after x weeks of feeding a control and test group of mice raw and pasteurized milk respectively that there was no difference in the growth of the mice (i.e. the protein is not necessarily more available in raw or pasteurized milk). There is also an often cited book raw milk activists cite - Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price, also published in the earlier half of the 20th century. The age of existing research troubles me.

I have also heard it tastes better. This reason alone would make me switch if I had a study that concluded the risks of drink raw milk were equal to or less than the risks of drinking pasteurized milk. I love the taste of a cup of whole milk (I currently drink about a half gallon a day (yes, i know that is excessive)) so if it could taste better sign me up.

Can anyone help me out with links to credible sources of objective information about raw dairy products? I do not want to dive into something head first if it has a greater possibility of ruining my health than what I'm already doing.

Edited March 2, 2010 by CastleBravo

[Amaroq]

I can drink a whole gallon of whole milk a day. Other than that, I have nothing to say. Sorry for the useless post. xD

I don't even know where to get raw milk. I'd love to try some. Perhaps Google can aid me.

(I've been trying on and off to switch to the Paleo diet as well.)

[rebelconservative]

Well, I wouldn't drink myself, as I have phobias about milk, but I believe there are significant health benefits. The pasteurisation process destroys a lot of the good things in milk, friendly bacteria, enzymes and certain fats - and calcium absorbtion is greatly increased with wholemilk, you lose more of the calcium in skimmed milk. However, there is a slight risk of salmonella in an untreated product. It should be up to the consumer to make the choice for themselves, but our government won't give us that option. It is very difficult to get hold of raw milk, especially if you live in a big city. In England, shops and supermarkets are not allowed to sell you raw milk, though you can buy it directly from the farm. In Scotland it is banned altogether. It is absurd that you can buy shellfish, tobacco and alcohol but not fresh milk! but since when has govt. ever behaved rationally?

[brian0918]

Diana Hsieh is a big raw dairy advocate. See the search results for her Noodlefood blog.

[CastleBravo]

Well, I wouldn't drink myself, as I have phobias about milk, but I believe there are significant health benefits. The pasteurisation process destroys a lot of the good things in milk, friendly bacteria, enzymes and certain fats - and calcium absorbtion is greatly increased with wholemilk, you lose more of the calcium in skimmed milk. However, there is a slight risk of salmonella in an untreated product. It should be up to the consumer to make the choice for themselves, but our government won't give us that option. It is very difficult to get hold of raw milk, especially if you live in a big city. In England, shops and supermarkets are not allowed to sell you raw milk, though you can buy it directly from the farm. In Scotland it is banned altogether. It is absurd that you can buy shellfish, tobacco and alcohol but not fresh milk! but since when has govt. ever behaved rationally?

These are the exact claims I need scientific substantiation of. Everyone says this but no one can prove it.

I can easily drink a gallon a day if I let myself. I don't do it very often because all the other fatty foods i eat are very calorie dense, so it's pretty easy to over eat. There are a few states that do allow the sale of whole milk off of the shelves; surprisingly the people's republic of California is one of them. I do support the raw milk movement because of consumer choice.

Keep in mind this is a republic; the very nature of majority rule is irrational.

Brian,

Thanks for the link.

[CastleBravo]

I can drink a whole gallon of whole milk a day. Other than that, I have nothing to say. Sorry for the useless post. xD

I don't even know where to get raw milk. I'd love to try some. Perhaps Google can aid me.

(I've been trying on and off to switch to the Paleo diet as well.)

http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html

That is a list of farms in different states that you can get raw milk from one way or another.

[brian0918]

Regarding eating eggs, you should make sure to actually get *pastured* or *grass-fed* eggs, not simply "free range" or "cage free". The latter terms do not change the fact that the chicken is fed primarily grains, resulting in a high omega-6:omega-3 fatty acid ratio, which is not preferable. I would also avoid any fruit beyond berries. Most large fruit have been bred to be very sweet over the last century, and thus are high in fructose - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM.

Edited March 2, 2010 by brian0918

[CastleBravo]

Regarding eating eggs, you should make sure to actually get *pastured* or *grass-fed* eggs, not simply "free range" or "cage free". The latter terms do not change the fact that the chicken is fed primarily grains, resulting in a high omega-6:omega-3 fatty acid ratio, which is not preferable. I would also avoid any fruit beyond berries. Most large fruit have been bred to be very sweet over the last century, and thus are high in fructose - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM.

Thats funny, I had never even heard of pastured chickens. It makes sense though, seeing as though grains dont want to be eaten by anything. I am aware of the omega 6:3 issue. I already eat mostly berries. I get bags of frozen berries because they are cheaper. Other than that i eat a lot of grapes and the occasional Grapefruit (occasionally because it just takes too much effort ). Sometimes I'll eat a banana before a workout if im hungry. Thanks for that link as well though as I try to avoid sugar as much as possible.

[Maximus]

As a diabetic, would this Paleo diet be advantageous for me?

[brian0918]

As a diabetic, would this Paleo diet be advantageous for me?

Which type of diabetes? Type 2 - definitely. The reason you are diabetic is due to insulin resistance, which is a consequence of the continual insulin spikes from your past consumption of highly-refined sugar. Cutting out carbs will help to correct your insulin sensitivity.

See this neurologist and dietary research analyst's examination of some recent studies of the effect of low-carb dieting on diabetes: part 1, part 2.

Also check out his other posts on the topic of diabetes (there are a lot). He's a proponent of the paleolithic diet.

Edited March 3, 2010 by brian0918

[Jackethan]

Also see this cardiologist's ideas on excess fruit. Your almond intake is also not helping your omega ratio.

I personally like the taste of raw milk, however I've had to stop eating milk in general because it is too much of a temptation for me. Like you and Amaroq, I can drink a gallon of milk in one day. That is a huge amount of calories, and when the only kind of milk I'm allowed to buy (bid by my father) is reduced fat, that is also a huge amount of lactose, which is a sugar. Drinking milk in general without pacing myself hardcore (as in only drinking one small cup per day) usually causes my weight loss to stop. But my goal is weight loss at this point, and I do very little exercise, so the carb restriction may not be necessary for you if you actually do have glycogen that needs restoring and don't want to do that through ketosis. I was able to find a brand of raw milk at my grocery store in fact, but it is very expensive, $8.50 per gallon or so. It is truly non pasteurized, non homogenized, regular whole raw milk, (in an aisle next to several varieties of 'organic' milk which are ultra pasteurized) it tasted pretty good, in my opinion, but it is much too expensive. If I were to get raw milk on a regular basis I'd probably get it through a cow share or some local dairy farmer program.

Good post!

[CastleBravo]

Also see this cardiologist's ideas on excess fruit. Your almond intake is also not helping your omega ratio.

I personally like the taste of raw milk, however I've had to stop eating milk in general because it is too much of a temptation for me. Like you and Amaroq, I can drink a gallon of milk in one day. That is a huge amount of calories, and when the only kind of milk I'm allowed to buy (bid by my father) is reduced fat, that is also a huge amount of lactose, which is a sugar. Drinking milk in general without pacing myself hardcore (as in only drinking one small cup per day) usually causes my weight loss to stop. But my goal is weight loss at this point, and I do very little exercise, so the carb restriction may not be necessary for you if you actually do have glycogen that needs restoring and don't want to do that through ketosis. I was able to find a brand of raw milk at my grocery store in fact, but it is very expensive, $8.50 per gallon or so. It is truly non pasteurized, non homogenized, regular whole raw milk, (in an aisle next to several varieties of 'organic' milk which are ultra pasteurized) it tasted pretty good, in my opinion, but it is much too expensive. If I were to get raw milk on a regular basis I'd probably get it through a cow share or some local dairy farmer program.

Good post!

This is another reason raw milk would be beneficial to my diet; cost. It is definitely more expensive and that means going through a gallon a day is entirely cost-prohibitive. If I view milk as a sensible indulgence (like extra dark chocolate or a beer) rather than a staple drink, my consumption drops greatly. Calorie intake isn't too much of an issue because I do heavy compound lifts 2-3 times a week and I walk at least a mile on my off days. To be honest I don't even count calories anymore, I just make sure I'm not going overboard on the dairy. My father is also a great fan of conventional wisdom and buys low fat EVERYTHING. The only thing he buys that I can eat are eggs and hamburger, and even the hamburger is at least 90/10. It is also the crap packaged for Wal-Mart that comes from 1500 different cows injected with everything but black tar heroin. Not my idea of a healthy red meat.

And Brian,

That video about sugar was absolutely awesome. Everyone in this thread should view it.

[CastleBravo]

Also, why are berries better for you than other fruits? Just less sugar and more fiber?

[brian0918]

Also, why are berries better for you than other fruits? Just less sugar and more fiber?

Definitely less sugar.

Edited March 3, 2010 by brian0918

[Maximus]

Which type of diabetes? Type 2 - definitely. The reason you are diabetic is due to insulin resistance, which is a consequence of the continual insulin spikes from your past consumption of highly-refined sugar. Cutting out carbs will help to correct your insulin sensitivity.

See this neurologist and dietary research analyst's examination of some recent studies of the effect of low-carb dieting on diabetes: part 1, part 2.

Also check out his other posts on the topic of diabetes (there are a lot). He's a proponent of the paleolithic diet.

Yes, I'm type 2. Thanks for the info.

[D'kian]

FYI raw milk spoils quickly. That's why pasteurization was such a big deal, even before large-scale refrigeration. In Europe and Latin America it's common to find milk treated at ultra-high temperature (UHT), which lets it sit unrefrigerated and unspoiled for up to 6 months. Raw milk spoils because it's a rich breeding-ground for all sorts of bacteria. As far as I know it doesn't keep longer than two or three days.

[CastleBravo]

FYI raw milk spoils quickly. That's why pasteurization was such a big deal, even before large-scale refrigeration. In Europe and Latin America it's common to find milk treated at ultra-high temperature (UHT), which lets it sit unrefrigerated and unspoiled for up to 6 months. Raw milk spoils because it's a rich breeding-ground for all sorts of bacteria. As far as I know it doesn't keep longer than two or three days.

I have read the exact opposite; that it keeps much longer than pasteurized milk. Can you provide a source? Raw milk contains enzymes which break down lactic acid so the milk does not spoil as quickly; this is my understanding. Would the logic then follow that as long as you keep it refrigerated (preventing bacterial growth) it will be good?

I think with raw milk it all comes down to the hygene of the cow and it's surroundings. Cows fed a proper diet of grass and hay and given a clean environment will produce healthy milk fit for human consumption. The cows on factory farms would not be well-suited to producing raw milk.

[dianahsieh]

FYI raw milk spoils quickly. That's why pasteurization was such a big deal, even before large-scale refrigeration. In Europe and Latin America it's common to find milk treated at ultra-high temperature (UHT), which lets it sit unrefrigerated and unspoiled for up to 6 months. Raw milk spoils because it's a rich breeding-ground for all sorts of bacteria. As far as I know it doesn't keep longer than two or three days.

That's completely false. My raw milk lasts for about 2 weeks in the fridge, then it slowly sours. (In contrast, pasteurized milk goes rancid... but compared to raw milk, it tastes like crap even at its prime.)

[CapitalistSwine]

Your almond intake is also not helping your omega ratio.

Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a second. I thought Almonds were a good nut choice?

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/almonds/

[D'kian]

I have read the exact opposite; that it keeps much longer than pasteurized milk. Can you provide a source?

I deal with people in the dairy industry. What they say is milk gets to the processing plant within 12 to 36 hours of being collected, then it goes through within hours. Pasteurized milk may take a few days to reach market, however, depending on relative locations. UHT milk may take weeks, as it will keep longer. Some pasteurized milk is shipped in bulk to other plants to make cheese, butter, cream, etc.

Raw milk contains enzymes which break down lactic acid so the milk does not spoil as quickly; this is my understanding. Would the logic then follow that as long as you keep it refrigerated (preventing bacterial growth) it will be good?

Anything lasts longer if it's refrigerated, but that may mean any period from hours to weeks depending on what food we're talking about. As a rule, processed foods last longer.

[brian0918]

Whoa whoa whoa. Wait a second. I thought Almonds were a good nut choice?

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/almonds/

Almonds have only a trace amount of omega-3, and 10g of omega-6 per 100g of almond. If you're supplementing with omega-3 fish oil, then that is probably not a concern. If not, then almonds are going to throw your omega ratio off.