ycsmdafli Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Today and for about the past week now, I have been experiencing some troubles with relationships or the lack there of. Although it has proven to be a thorn in my side I, it got me thinking about a few things. Why is it that people assume that before they start into a relationship or, even go out on a first date that there already has to be some type of cosmic connection? In my mind when you are interested in someone that, that right there is your start. There doesn’t have to be fire works going off or any type of nervous anxiety every time you meet. All that there has to be is interest, be it in their mind, their sense of humor, their sometimes unbearable search for adventure. In a way though I guess this can be compared to love at first sight, is there a connection that needs to be made at first contact. Or dare I say it can it be developed in the knowing of someone for a period of time. I can’t tell so I would love to hear your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnittoli Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 sorry, not on your question, but that thumnail looks to be a Steve Hanks. I have 2 hanging on my wall myself, though not that one. see attachment. I discovered Hanks through a O'ist as well. I wish i had something to say on relationships, but that area of life has alluded me as well. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidV Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I love Steve Hank's art -- I have a collection on my site... but women are a mystery to me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concerto of Atlantis Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I think we should let Betsy - the Guru of Matchmaking and Love tackle this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwakeAndFree Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I love Steve Hank's art -- I have a collection on my site... but women are a mystery to me as well. If women are indeed a mystery, then Steve Hanks has come close to solving it. As to the question that started this discussion: I think there has to be more, just a little more, than mere intellectual interest. This "spark" is a sort of affirmation from your subconscious that the person you're seeing is indeed the kind of person, and has the kind of sense of life, you are looking for. I think the problem with all those online dating services is that this "spark" can only be felt once you're standing in front of a person, seeing their reactions, the way they move. But since it does not exist online - people often resort to the less accurate means of judging according to appearance, wealth, and lists of "turn ons" and "turn offs" - or other similarly silly criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concerto of Atlantis Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Eran, I don't necessarily think that lists of turn-offs and turn-ons are inaccurate. I believe that they can reveal a lot about a person's sense of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwakeAndFree Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Eran, I don't necessarily think that lists of turn-offs and turn-ons are inaccurate. I believe that they can reveal a lot about a person's sense of life. Ok, turnoffs: - Online Dating Services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Capitalist Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I would agree online dating services are useless if you keep it online. If you meet someone online and think there is potential, arrange to meet them in person. Why is it that people assume that before they start into a relationship or, even go out on a first date that there already has to be some type of cosmic connection? I think some people believe there is one "right" person out there for them and it is just a matter of finding them. That's just silly; there are lots of people out there you could potentially have a fulfilling relationship with, but it won't come instantly the second you meet them; it takes time and work. In my mind when you are interested in someone that, that right there is your start. There doesn’t have to be fire works going off or any type of nervous anxiety every time you meet. All that there has to be is interest, be it in their mind, their sense of humor, their sometimes unbearable search for adventure. That nervous anxiety is caused by the recognition that the person might be very valuable to you and you don't want to lose them (same feeling you might get before an interview for a really good job). Unfortunately it can also be caused by infatuation, where you think the person is really amazing but actually you are letting your fantasies block out reality. In a way though I guess this can be compared to love at first sight, is there a connection that needs to be made at first contact. Or dare I say it can it be developed in the knowing of someone for a period of time. I can’t tell so I would love to hear your thoughts. I don't believe in literal "love at first sight"; you need to know someone very well before being able to truly love them. A strong connection at first meeting is not essential. It is certainly possible to start a relationship without the "fireworks," with just mutual interests, etc. If you don't get the "spark" fairly soon, though, its probably going nowhere. (although you might become friends, which is still good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concerto of Atlantis Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Ok, turnoffs: - Online Dating Services. Touche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick N. Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Ok, turnoffs: - Online Dating Services. I met my wife on an online dating service. Her profile said: "Two words: Ayn Rand!" We have been very happily married for two years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwakeAndFree Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 I met my wife on an online dating service. Her profile said: "Two words: Ayn Rand!" We have been very happily married for two years! Ok, turnons: -Ayn Rand Is that it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMERICONORMAN Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Today and for about the past week now, I have been experiencing some troubles with relationships or the lack there of. Although it has proven to be a thorn in my side I, it got me thinking about a few things. Why is it that people assume that before they start into a relationship or, even go out on a first date that there already has to be some type of cosmic connection? In my mind when you are interested in someone that, that right there is your start. There doesn’t have to be fire works going off or any type of nervous anxiety every time you meet. All that there has to be is interest, be it in their mind, their sense of humor, their sometimes unbearable search for adventure. In a way though I guess this can be compared to love at first sight, is there a connection that needs to be made at first contact. Or dare I say it can it be developed in the knowing of someone for a period of time. I can’t tell so I would love to hear your thoughts. Well, there does have to be a cosmic connection, metaphorically speaking. I don't mean that at first sight that cosmic connection has to be identified by the consciosness of the potential lovers. I mean that existentially, those potential lovers in their own lives, in their countless decisions and achievments, have brought them to the point where they can become each others' psychological mirror. And if one's sense of life can be translated into body language and facial expression, then this can be felt too. In fiction, there should be fireworks, and if not it should be because the plot demands that there not be. In reality, Objectivist suffer from bad moods, exhaustion, appointments, etc. There have been so many people that I have let go by on the subway or bus because I would be late for work, was reading a book, or was just too tired. Yes, I also suffered from lack of courage. But I do know that fear of the potential beloved is not a good excuse not to talk to him or her. Usually the fear is because one knows that one has nothing interesting to say and one has noticed the person merely because of their physical beauty. The connection that needs to be made is that you have to SPEAK to each other. If you only have spontaneous questions to ask her, and spotaneous subjects to talk about, you have to have a social talent. Since love is such an important value, you should be able to narrow down the things you would like to know immediately about someone: Career interest and unique talents is an important one; common interests is another. YOU ALSO HAVE TO GET OVER THE FEAR OF THE PERSON BITING YOU. In my life the friends that I have loved the most and been closest with are people with whom I've had that immediate spark. There's usually a joy that is visible. Or there is a strenght that is visible. There is usually the fact on his or her face that said to me that they noticed me, I was something remarkable. How they responded to my honesty was a good test. How easy it was for them to get interested in my philosophy talk. Intelligence is something you can catch very early. And then overtime, that initial connection was confirmed. The friendship strengthened and intensified. I found that I had to integrate these people into my weekly life. One's career is the omnipresent guide when gauging how much time you trade with friends and lovers. In this sense, The Fountainhead is a wonderful guide. I have finally reached the point where I passionately love what I do: I write fiction and philosophy and study fiction and philosophy. The people in my life will be the ones who best integrate with these loves of mine. Over five years ago, I had an Objectivist friend who I respected, he was older and was wiser. I once told him that, "All I need is one person". I had isolated myself from my past and people in general and engulfed myself with books and my own mind. Needless to say the loneliness hit me very easily. My friend disagreed with me: he thought that a person needs a handful of special people to be happy. Since I was lonely I doubted whether I was right about my statement. I must now say that he was wrong. Yes, it would be nice to have a group of special friends. But truly to be happy, all one needs is one, and not even that; but in the context of social relationships, one will do. If you're a fiction writer and you know you are good and you can't get published, it may hurt you that you can't get published: the pain only goes down so deep because it can't penetrate the utter joy which is your own artistic creation, an end in itself. Because we live in a socialist economy does that take away from the vision given to us by Ayn Rand? Over the years, in trying to balance professional work and social relationships, I have found that whenever I had that one person in my life, it was still difficult to integrate him into my hierarchy of values (in the context of giving him my time). I once let a great friend leave me because he made me miss a Ridpath lecture on Leninism; missing that lecture was a symbol of a greater liability that my friend confronted me with. I once let another friend go because he needed to be away from me--the aspiring philosopher and novelist--in order to figure out who he really was and what he would love to do in life: he was an enormous energy and vitality without an outlet. When I find my first genuine great romantic love, I don't know how I will be able to integrate the other people in my life with all the intellectual projects I keep giving myself, and keep coming up spontaneously for which I know I will never have time for. I know for certain I won't have children until I'm 40 or 50, if I ever do, because the only reason I could think of is: they would be ideal "laboratory guinea pigs" for validating Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology. The point is that one will do. Once you see one that you want, go for it, and bring all your reason into it. Yes, it will be something that has to be nurtured, and maybe even saved, over a long time. But when you look into your lover's eyes and see yourself like you have never seen yourself before: like you see yourself in your most personal and joyous moments--all the struggle will have been worth it. In the beginning you may have more to offer than your beloved, i.e., you will have to mold her into your ideal work of art. But in the end you will be molded by him or her too--because you will prove a bad teacher if your student does not surpass YOU. Americo. (the apriori lover) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramKatori Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I guess that without an initial "spark", a romantic relationship is unlikely. Meeting a person is usually the best way to know if there is a spark. However, something written "from the soul" can be revealing too. Yes, I can imagine reading something by someone and saying "sounds extremely interesting" (a.k.a. "sounds like me"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick N. Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Ok, turnons: -Ayn Rand Is that it? Certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KleineAngst Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 *shrugs* Two words: Love yourself. *wonders about everyone's interpretation of that statement, and perhaps it's literal meaning and what it implies* Let me know if you want to talk about this, we'll sit down some time and chat about it. I didn't know you thought this much about dating, and let me tell you, if you turn out anything like your older brother (me), you will have a very hard time finding someone worthy of you, let alone someone you desire. I would share with you how I managed it, finally, if it's something you'd like to hear. E-mail me sometime, or call and find out when I'm free and we'll meet for food and talk it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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