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D'kian

NFL 2010

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Yeah, it's too early to begin a thread for this year, but there are some developments:

1) There's a mess involving the salary cap, the player's union and the collective bargaining agreement. I'm not following that, except that it may lead to a strike in 2011.

2) New overtime rules for the playoffs:

In this year's playoffs a field goal may not be enough to win in overtime. Let's say team A wins the toss and elects to receive. If they score a TD on their first possession they win. If they score a field goal, they have to kick off to team B.

Now team B wins if they score a TD. If they score a field goal they kick it off to team A. If team B doesn't score, team A wins.

If overtime is tied after a field goal each, then the old sudden death rules come into effect, and the first team to break the tie wins. As usual, as many quarters of OT as are necessary will be played.

I was going to call this change the Minnesota Rule (patent pending), because when it was discussed the press was rife with references to the Vikes' loss last season in the NFC championship in OT. But Minnesota actually voted against the new rules, so that wouldn't be fair.

It's still the better part of a year before we see what the new rule will do, and then only if any playoff games go into overtime. For one thing teams will have to be less conservative in their OT offenses. As it stands now, most OT games are won by 3 points, any TDs are usually accidental (interceptions, fumbles, blocked field goals, defensive mistakes and so on). Under the new rules it makes more sense to go for the TD.

No word yet on whether PAT or 2 point conversions will be available in OT. Under the old rules they were not. It doesn't really matter, but it may affect how bookies handicap games.

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Yeah, it's too early to begin a thread for this year, but there are some developments:

2) New overtime rules for the playoffs:

It's never too early for such discussion. Then again, the only news I watch on television is ESPN. :P

I myself like the new overtime rules. They wanted to try them because they're afraid that a typical OT sudden death victory will happen in the Super Bowl. However, I think that if it's good enough for the post season, then it should be good enough for the regular season. In fact, if anything, they should have tested the new rule this year, in the regular season, and then applied it in full next year, if it is to their Viking... I mean, liking...

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I myself like the new overtime rules. They wanted to try them because they're afraid that a typical OT sudden death victory will happen in the Super Bowl. However, I think that if it's good enough for the post season, then it should be good enough for the regular season. In fact, if anything, they should have tested the new rule this year, in the regular season, and then applied it in full next year, if it is to their Viking... I mean, liking...

I'm guessing they are trying to prevent even more injuries to the players, by not prolonging the regular season games.

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I'm guessing they are trying to prevent even more injuries to the players, by not prolonging the regular season games.

Not a bad call at all in that light. Let them save it all for the post season. I still prefer to have it for the regular season though :P

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There's been talk of extending the season by one or two games. To do this, they'd drop one or two preseason games. The NFL's done it before, when it went from 14 to 16 games. More games that count also means more chances to get injured.

As to OT, I'd thought they'd change the rules for all games, not just playoffs, but it makes sense not to. Injuries aside, it might lead to more ties because scoring a TD isn't as easy as scoring a field goal. The defense would play conservatively in order to force the other team into a field goal situation. So two field goals seems a likely scenario, and that may also consume so much time the game's effectively tied.

In post season you can have more than one OT period, so that's not a concern. Playoff games can't be tied.

BTW no Superbowl has ever gone into overtime. Eventually one has to, but 0 out of 44 is quite a record.

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I myself like the new overtime rules. They wanted to try them because they're afraid that a typical OT sudden death victory will happen in the Super Bowl. However, I think that if it's good enough for the post season, then it should be good enough for the regular season. In fact, if anything, they should have tested the new rule this year, in the regular season, and then applied it in full next year, if it is to their Viking... I mean, liking...

I agree. I think teams should have the opportunity to prepare for the new rules during the regular season. I find games that go into overtime only to end with a field goal on third down to be disappointing.

Some local sports radio guys suggested raising the roster limit if more games are added to the regular season. This would allow teams to have more depth in case of injury and possibly include more packages in their game plans. Does anyone like that idea?

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These prices are insane!

Seriously.

Donovan McNabb got traded to Washington for a 2nd round draft pick in 2010 and a 3th or 4th round pick in 2011. That's the biggest bargain I've ever seen in the NFL, until yesterday.

Yesterday NFL Net reported the Steelers traded Santonio Holmes (he of The Catch, and Superbowl MVP) to the Jets for a late round draft pick in 2010 (5th, I think). Word is there were locker room problems and off the field porblems. He also faces a suspension regarding the League's "subtsance abuse" policy

Of course, since Big ben was spared sexual assault charges, that means he won't be traded to Detroit for a 100th round draft pick in 2112 <whew!> Seriously, once is happenstance, twice is coincidence. I fervently hope Roethlisberger will confine his news-making activities to the playing field.

In other news, Texas Stadium was demolished yesterday. The Cowboys (who?) played there from 1971 til last season. That's quite a run. Normally I'd say good riddance, but any serious NFL fan has to hold a few people who unfortunately played or worked for the Cowboys in high regard. I'll mention just one, who is also the greatest one: Coach Tom Landry.

A little bit of analysis to finish. the Eagles clearly think McNabb is through. Not only did they let him go cheap, they traded him to a division rival. Meaning they don't expect McNabb, ro Washington with McNabb, to be any sort fo threat.

They know McNabb best, anturally. But the new Redskins' coach is Mike Shanahan, the man who elevated John Elway to his greatest heights and won two Superbowls. Of course he's also the man sho needed to win just one game to clinch his division two years ago, and wound up melting down and out fo the playoffs altogether.

PS This year's Brett Favre soap opera hasn't quite gotten started yet.

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These people have negotiated contracts for at least the next year, if not longer. Whenever someone is overpaid, compared to his current value (which includes current ability, but also future potential), the difference should be considered as part of the transfer price. Given the salary cap, that difference should also be multiplied by whatever factor is appropriate. So I'm sure McNabb and Holmes are worth quite a few millions that the Eagles and Steelers now get to use to keep some of their young stars, maybe even hire a younger free agent, without going over the salary cap.

Selling old players with large salaries is the most crucial step when trying to build a new team of champions, even if the old guy still has a couple of good years in him. If he can't win (as McNabb demonstrated he can't), the team is better off losing with a younger replacement. The Pats did this last year, and now have the breathing room to build the new team. The only difference is that Brady is a winner, so getting rid of him would be too obvious a statement that they're not aiming to win for now.

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Yesterday NFL Net reported the Steelers traded Santonio Holmes (he of The Catch, and Superbowl MVP) to the Jets for a late round draft pick in 2010 (5th, I think). Word is there were locker room problems and off the field porblems. He also faces a suspension regarding the League's "subtsance abuse" policy

Hold on here...What catch are you talking about? In the NFL "The Catch" is the one made by Dwight Clark from Joe Montana in the 1982 NFC championship. There can't be two ["The Catch"] that would be confusing and inane.

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those new overtime rules are bizarre, why not just say that the first team to score a TD wins?

as for the salary cap, as much as I love baseball (go Mets!) and American football, I find the entire structure of US sports quite strange. I really don't understand it. it is totally different to football (soccer) in the UK, which operates in a more of a free, capitalist, competitive manner. there is no salary cap, no draft or anything. obviously, private leagues can operate whatever rules they like, but it seems antithetical to the American spirit.

the draft, with the first pick going to the worst team - does the player have any say in this? can he refuse?

do all sportsmen have to go to college?

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those new overtime rules are bizarre, why not just say that the first team to score a TD wins?

Because you can win without scoring a touchdown.

I find the entire structure of US sports quite strange. I really don't understand it. it is totally different to football (soccer) in the UK, which operates in a more of a free, capitalist, competitive manner.

The NFL is an entirely voluntary association of teams. It doesn't get any more capitalistic than that. In contrast, soccer in the UK is subject to all kinds of government regulation, both from the EU and the British gov. (I believe they can't play with more than 3 or five non-European players on their team, for instance, and they need a special work license even for those non-EU players they hire? - license which isn't always granted)

the draft, with the first pick going to the worst team - does the player have any say in this? can he refuse?

The choice is mostly between playing in the NFL and not playing in the NFL, rather than between specific teams they would like to play for. But they can refuse to agree on a contract with the team which drafts them out of college, and sign with another NFL team at a later date.

Usually the threat of doing that will cause the hiring team to work out a deal, as in trade the player to another team, or never draft him. Eli Manning for instance made it clear that he won't sign for the Chargers, so they traded him to the Giants, in exchange for Rivers. Otherwise, Eli would've had to sit on the sideline for some time, and the Chargers would've lost their draft pick.

do all sportsmen have to go to college?

No, just the ones who wish to play in the NFL.

Edited by Jake_Ellison

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Because you can win without scoring a touchdown.

not if you make the rule that only a TD can win it in overtime. it is just less complicated than the new rules.

The NFL is an entirely voluntary association of teams. It doesn't get any more capitalistic than that.

of course, I worded that poorly. I am just surprised that such a system developed in the US, compared to a more laissez-faire model in the UK where teams can pretty much hire whoever they want and can pay what they want, there is no real regulation of that.

In contrast, soccer in the UK is subject to all kinds of government regulation, both from the EU and the British gov. (I believe they can't play with more than 3 or five non-European players on their team, for instance, and they need a special work license even for those non-EU players they hire? - license which isn't always granted)

I'm not sure there is much govt regulation, most of the regulation comes from FIFA and UEFA, football's governing body - voluntary like the NFL. there is not much regulation regarding ownership and no salary cap, or cap on transfer fees. they are trying to bring in new rules regarding debt, but we will have to see what happens there. there is also a relatively new rule for the Champions League, that you have to have a certain number of 'home' players in your squad.

foreign (non-EU) players need a work visa from the government, but I imagine the same would be true in the US with Ichiro at Seattle and now Takahashi at NY etc. No?

also, is it true that many stadiums in the US are part-financed by the local government, as an inducement for the team to locate there?

in the UK, virtually all are privately built and financed. the only exception I can think of is Eastlands, which was built as Commonwealth games venue and is leased to Manchester City. (there may be others in lower leagues)

The choice is mostly between playing in the NFL and not playing in the NFL, rather than between specific teams they would like to play for. But they can refuse to agree on a contract with the team which drafts them out of college, and sign with another NFL team at a later date.

would that be in the draft the following year? or are they able to sign non-contracted players at any time?

if so, wouldn't the best players and the best teams operate outside of the draft?

has there been any attempt to set-up a less regulated governing body, with no salary cap or draft? (similar to Kerry Packer with cricket in the 70s)

I find the contrasts quite fascinating, especially the franchise system and the lack of promotion/relegation. neither of those could happen here.

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Hold on here...What catch are you talking about? In the NFL "The Catch" is the one made by Dwight Clark from Joe Montana in the 1982 NFC championship. There can't be two ["The Catch"] that would be confusing and inane.

Right. That's why Holmes' play in Superbowl LXIII has replaced the Clark play as The Catch. Come on. Mr Holmes beat three defenders and caught the ball right at the edge of the end zone. It doesn't get any greater than that.

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Hold on here...What catch are you talking about? In the NFL "The Catch" is the one made by Dwight Clark from Joe Montana in the 1982 NFC championship. There can't be two ["The Catch"] that would be confusing and inane.

That is beautifully put. Yes, that was a great catch by Dwight in the End Zone ... it kicked off the Niner Dynasty over the next 10+ years.

Of course, the Cowboys did something greater, but I won't mention anything now, because other teams need to shine sometimes too.

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Right. That's why Holmes' play in Superbowl LXIII has replaced the Clark play as The Catch. Come on. Mr Holmes beat three defenders and caught the ball right at the edge of the end zone. It doesn't get any greater than that.

I'm not saying that it wasn't a great catch. You just have to come up with your own name (The Steel Trap?). People have been refereeing to Montana to Clark catch "the catch" for nearly 28 years. Besides if the phrase could be replaced it would most likely be the Manning to Tyree catch in Super Bowl XLII that would claim it.

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I'm not saying that it wasn't a great catch. You just have to come up with your own name (The Steel Trap?). People have been refereeing to Montana to Clark catch "the catch" for nearly 28 years. Besides if the phrase could be replaced it would most likely be the Manning to Tyree catch in Super Bowl XLII that would claim it.

1) Next time a ball pinballs uncertainly off someone, and an offensive player comes out of nowhere to catch it just before it hits the ground, and then he runs it for a TD in a playoff game, I'd be willing to call that "The Immaculate Reception."

2) The Manning to Tyree play should be called The Dodge. Manning avoided capture and sack by at least three defenders before he threw the pass. That took skill and luck. The catch by Tyree was pure luck. In The Catch (SB LXIII version), Big Ben placed the ball past three defenders at the precise spot where only Holmes could get it, and he had the skill and talent to catch it and stay in bounds.

So there :P

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There have been some developments in the League recently. I've not posted for a while, though, because the Roethlisberger mess broke and I didn't want to talk about it. I still don't, but I can't ignore it either, so I'll just say this:

What Ben did was much worse than what got Michael Vick in jail. The suspension he got was too lenient. The guy may be a good QB, but off the field he's doing every effor tto wreck his career, first the motorcycle accident in 06, now this. That's it, I still don't want to talk about it.

Anyway, the draft came and went with much fanfare but very little hype. San Diego traded Tomlinson to the Jets for reasons that baffle me, but which migth help the Jets out of mediocrity at long last (on the other hand, if Favre couldn't do it...)

And the proposal is officially out to lenghten the season to 18 games, thereby eliminating 2 pre-season games. I don't really like the idea. I'd love more games, but more games mean more injuries. It would be counterproductive to play longer if many more players got hurt and the overall quality of play came down. already the NFL has the shortest average player career (around 4 years, if I recall correctly).

For a longer season two other things would be needed: 1) larger team rosters and 2) possibly a second bye week per team. 2 would lenghten the season too much, pushing the Superbowl to late February. 1 means a lot more money in team expenses, higher ticket prices, higher TV fees, etc.

Besides, the League shoulnd't lenghten the season before at least one team achieves a perfect 19-0 season. New England came within one play of doing it, and last year both the Colts and Saints (the freaking Saints!) had a shot at it. The Colts chose not to go for it, the Saints sort of reverted to type late in the season, but both came rather close. For that matter the 85 bears wound up 18-1, losing only to Miami at the Orange Bowl.

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also, is it true that many stadiums in the US are part-financed by the local government, as an inducement for the team to locate there?

in the UK, virtually all are privately built and financed. the only exception I can think of is Eastlands, which was built as Commonwealth games venue and is leased to Manchester City. (there may be others in lower leagues)

would that be in the draft the following year? or are they able to sign non-contracted players at any time?

if so, wouldn't the best players and the best teams operate outside of the draft?

has there been any attempt to set-up a less regulated governing body, with no salary cap or draft? (similar to Kerry Packer with cricket in the 70s)

I find the contrasts quite fascinating, especially the franchise system and the lack of promotion/relegation. neither of those could happen here.

Local governments partly finance stadiums because it creates revenue for the city, which is good for everyone.

Teams sign players outside the draft all the time - mostly college players who weren't drafted or players from other professional football leagues. The purpose of the draft is to create competitive balance. The same is true with the salary cap. There is no cap in baseball, and this usually causes the big market teams to always be the best teams in the league. I think there is merit to both systems. Baseball teams also have farm systems, though, where teams can develop their own players through the minor leagues. The NFL doesn't have minor leagues; the NCAA basically is the equivalent of minor league football, as the D1 schools typically have the best players in the world outside of the NFL. It would be very difficult for a football player to develop the necessary skills to compete in the NFL if they chose not to go to college. The NCAA provides the best teams and the best training, so trying to circumvent it would really be against the player's best interests.

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Ahhh....Sweet vindication! Referee Bill Leavy apologizes to Seahawks for bad calls made during Superbowl XL.

Some years back the officials at a Giants-49ers playoff game made an egregious mistake in the final play, a botched field goal/pass attempt. They penalized the Giants, properly, for an inelegible man down field, but they missed a flagrant pass interference by San Francisco.

Had they amde the right call, the penalties would offset and the down would have been replayed. Botching two field goals in a row isn't likely.

The very next day the League issued a statement admitting the officials blew it. When reporters asked 49ers coach Mariucci about this, he mulled it over a few seconds and then shrugged and said "Bummer!"

That's about how much the Seahawks got, I'm afraid.

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Not much has been going on. Tim Tebow played with Denver, adding more confussion to what promises to be a good old fashioned QB controversy. Big Ben did not play for the Steelers, leaving the game in the hands of the three backups. This won't be Pittsburgh's year.

Notable for today, the Jets and Giants officially nagurate their new stadium.

First I want to congratulate both teams and their fans and whoever else made the decision to make it an open stadium. Domes are ok, but cold weather teams should make use of the cold weather. Ask Minnesota.

Second, should both New York City teams admit they're really New Jersey teams?

Yes, I know many teams play in suburbs of their putative city, but in such cases they remain within their state. The Jets and giants do neither.

In other words, those of Linda Richmond to eb precise, "The New York Jets and Giants are neither New York nor Jets and Giants. Discuss."

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I like the Giants new receiver, Victor Cruz. I want to see what he does against starters.

The Jets need Revis, badly. Cromartie was good but Lowery still sucks.

I like Jim Sorgi, but I hope Eli is okay after that gushing head wound. That looked brutal.

Oh, I'm loving LT. I think he will have a chance to be rejuvenated behind this Jets OL. Between him and Greene, Jets will easily lead the league in rushing again. They could have two 1000 yard rushers here.

Edited by Ragnar69

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Would that they have kept Favre, hey?

The Favre Soap, Part III, seems to have gone on hiatus. I really don't care much anymore.

oh it's still brewing. He hasn't made an official decision yet, like usual.

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