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Black Panthers Declare War Against the Tea Party

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CapitalistSwine
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To be fair...it's not "like the good ole' days" since the oppress-ees are the oppress-ors.

Well, not really. Most of them are no longer living, unless we want to go along with the collective guilt mantra they are pushing.

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Because they had a right to threaten voters back then because they were oppressed? That is what you are suggesting.

LOL...no...but I can see how you'd think that from what I wrote. I should have put quotation marks around the "Oppress-ors" and "Oppress-ees." As in "those who view themselves as oppressed are now oppressing," with the irony of it almost totally lost.

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In two different threads you've referred to them this way; to me "hippie" is an insult. In what way do you mean "hippies" and what is your basis for such a characterization?

I agree. If anything the hippies are the democrats running government today, i.e. running us into the ground.

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In two different threads you've referred to them this way; to me "hippie" is an insult. In what way do you mean "hippies" and what is your basis for such a characterization?

This is the basis for my characterization of the Tea Party movement.

Quote:

For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with and have no connection with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultaneously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the collectivist movement, where it properly belongs.

One more jab, while I'm on a roll:

Above all, do not join the wrong ideological groups or movements, in order to “do something.” By “ideological” (in this context), I mean groups or movements proclaiming some vaguely generalized, undefined (and, usually, contradictory) political goals. (E.g., the Conservative Party, which subordinates reason to faith, and substitutes theocracy for capitalism; or the “libertarian” hippies, who subordinate reason to whims, and substitute anarchism for capitalism.) To join such groups means to reverse the philosophical hierarchy and to sell out fundamental principles for the sake of some superficial political action which is bound to fail. It means that you help the defeat of your ideas and the victory of your enemies.

I see no difference between a movement which embraces the likes of Sarah Palin and what Ayn Rand describes above.

Edited by Yes
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I agree. If anything the hippies are the democrats running government today, i.e. running us into the ground.

I only half agree- the entire government is run by hippies, both Republican and Democrat.

When you are elected a representative, you check your principles at the door :)

Edited by Yes
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OK ... so then you need to correctly identify what the Tea Party movement is about. They are not anarchists and they are not Libertarians (as in the Libertarian Party).

I think this more accurately describes what the Tea Parties are about:

Today, thousands of Americans are joining modern day tea parties, named after the Boston Tea Party of 1773. They are protesting a government that, in the wake of today’s financial crisis, is rapidly strangling their freedom, with endless bailouts, mounting regulations, reckless spending, and the promise of a crippling tax burden. Correctly sensing that the American system is being discarded, they seek to battle this trend by taking to the streets to register their outrage.

I'm sure they need some ideological guidance, which is something we can provide. In general, they are very receptive to the ideas of Ayn Rand.

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Please do not use Ayn Rand's quotes to justify your whitewashing of an entire group of individuals from a large spectrum of beliefs. It is disrespectful to her memory, and it is a tactic being used far too often to justify conclusions she would likely not have agreed with.

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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This is the basis for my characterization of the Tea Party movement.

Quote:

For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with and have no connection with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultaneously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the collectivist movement, where it properly belongs.

One more jab, while I'm on a roll:

Above all, do not join the wrong ideological groups or movements, in order to “do something.” By “ideological” (in this context), I mean groups or movements proclaiming some vaguely generalized, undefined (and, usually, contradictory) political goals. (E.g., the Conservative Party, which subordinates reason to faith, and substitutes theocracy for capitalism; or the “libertarian” hippies, who subordinate reason to whims, and substitute anarchism for capitalism.) To join such groups means to reverse the philosophical hierarchy and to sell out fundamental principles for the sake of some superficial political action which is bound to fail. It means that you help the defeat of your ideas and the victory of your enemies.

I see no difference between a movement which embraces the likes of Sarah Palin and what Ayn Rand describes above.

How popular is Sarah Palin? I get the impression it's over blown.

Most of the Tea Party movement is inspired by a proper, righteous anger over loss of freedoms.

Edited by Thales
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I only half agree- the entire government is run by hippies, both Republican and Democrat.

When you are elected a representative, you check your principles at the door :)

Yeah, many of the republicans are, but the democrats are hippies on steroids. Just think of John Kerry as your classic example.

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OK ... so then you need to correctly identify what the Tea Party movement is about. They are not anarchists and they are not Libertarians (as in the Libertarian Party).

I think this more accurately describes what the Tea Parties are about:

I'm sure they need some ideological guidance, which is something we can provide. In general, they are very receptive to the ideas of Ayn Rand.

...and the reason they need such guidance is that they can easily fall prey to the ideology of the Right, which includes religious Christian ideology as a basis of moral judgement and standards. The Ayn Rand Institute has made numerous overtures to try to direct the Tea Party in a healthy direction where reason prevails.

Otherwise, I strongly disagree with your assessment of the Tea Party. They are too intent on inviting anti-abortion zealots like Sarah Palin as keynote speakers, and Republican candidates as well. It has only a remote relationship with the Boston Tea Party in its reality (although we all know they promote it as such).

The reality is that the Tea Party seems all too willing to sign on to anyone who professes the bromides of "less government," "lower taxes," and they love bodies to show up en masse. What about the right to one's life, liberty, and prosperity? This movement, in order to really have a strong core, cannot subvert that in favor of the lower tax, small government bromide. That I witnessed numerous signs by anti-abortionists at a recent Tea Party rally in New Haven showed me that this movement was indeed run by a bunch of libertarian right-wing hippies.

Andrew Lewis recently gave an excellent speech as one of the few Objectivists who were invited to speak at a Tea Party rally.

I am not, however, optimistic that they paid attention to his core points.

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How popular is Sarah Palin? I get the impression it's over blown.

Sarah Palin is popular enough to be ridiculed on Saturday Night Live :)

Seriously, it is disheartening to hear her speak at these Tea Party rallies and hear the roaring cheers that follow.

To me, the Tea Party and the Black Panthers can duke it out in a scenario that might eclipse those conflicts described in Atlas Shrugged

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Sarah Palin is popular enough to be ridiculed on Saturday Night Live :lol:

Seriously, it is disheartening to hear her speak at these Tea Party rallies and hear the roaring cheers that follow.

I've seen evidence that Sarah Palin is not all that popular. They had a poll of possible candidates for Tea Party people a few months ago, and she was not that high up. I've also heard many people turning against her. I used to have some respect for her, but the more I learned the less I had and now I don't like her. As you learn about people things change. Sarah Palin was an unknown when she came on the scene two years ago.

Still, I could be wrong on this, but I don't think it's all that obvious.

To me, the Tea Party and the Black Panthers can duke it out in a scenario that might eclipse those conflicts described in Atlas Shrugged

I don't think you're assessing the Tea Party movement right for the reasons I mentioned in my prior posting.

George Bush isn't as extreme as John Kerry by a long shot. He does have the religious elements in his thinking that don't help, however.

Edited by Thales
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Otherwise, I strongly disagree with your assessment of the Tea Party. They are too intent on inviting anti-abortion zealots like Sarah Palin as keynote speakers, and Republican candidates as well. It has only a remote relationship with the Boston Tea Party in its reality (although we all know they promote it as such).

[...]

That I witnessed numerous signs by anti-abortionists at a recent Tea Party rally in New Haven showed me that this movement was indeed run by a bunch of libertarian right-wing hippies.

I don't have too much more to say on the matter except that I think you are wrong. To the degree the Tea Party is centralized (and I don't think it is strongly centralized) its message is not anti-abortion or pro christian. These are not the messages that the speakers promote. They focus on the lower taxes, less government messages that you identified. And they are just as mad at the Republicans under Bush for spending too much money as they are at Obama and the Dems. I've seen them essentially boo off the stage a tax and spend Republican.

The reality is that the Tea Party seems all too willing to sign on to anyone who professes the bromides of "less government," "lower taxes," and they love bodies to show up en masse. What about the right to one's life, liberty, and prosperity? This movement, in order to really have a strong core, cannot subvert that in favor of the lower tax, small government bromide.

This part of your analysis is weak. You hear lots about life, liberty, property and the Founders at the Tea Parties and, contrary to your assertion, the ideas of "less government" and "lower spending" don't subvert those goals, they promote them. They go hand in hand.

To be sure, any mixed movement requires close watching and the withdrawal of your sanction once it demonstrates its irrational aims but the Tea Party hasn't done that yet. If they actively start promoting christianity and anti-abortion, then I would be gone.

But to draw some moral equivalence between the Black Panthers and the Tea Parties is completely unjust. You mean to say that you would stand by and watch as a malevolent, nihilistic, tribalist tried to shout and beat down someone who revered the Founders and was benevolently espousing their ideas? Who would you be supporting then?

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This part of your analysis is weak. You hear lots about life, liberty, property and the Founders at the Tea Parties and, contrary to your assertion, the ideas of "less government" and "lower spending" don't subvert those goals, they promote them. They go hand in hand.

I just recalled the "Contract From America" and it rather solidly supports your point.

http://www.thecontract.org/the-contract-from-america/

I think the elements in that contract were voted on by lots of Tea Party members and placed in the contract.

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