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What is happening to Israel?

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Dannie
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These are tough times for Israel. The current Turkish aid ship affair is not going well with the world media and Israel is losing the fight on this frontier. Everyone seems to forget that it is a very sensitive and complex situation. When viewed from the angle of Israeli government I am quite sure that all would act in the same way. In addition to this – the world media seems quite content to ignore footage of Israeli soldiers showing restraint while being attacked with axes and metal rods and being thrown off deck by so called “peaceful humanitarian activists”. Fanatics who have no connection to this conflict whatsoever other than there inherent bias of Israel are being interviewed constantly on networks such as Sky News and CNN, portraying Israel as a militant oppressing state, and it’s soldiers as violent uncontrolled killers. Many countries and groups are talking of banning Israeli made products. It is time to act! We see that this affair is nothing but a provocation intended to lose Israel favor with the world. Support Israel by streaming money in to the country and buying Israeli made, joining pro Israel FB groups and wearing pro Israel shirts.

Basically making your voice heard in any way possible so we can win this media war.

And here is an Israeli T shirt sight with pro Israel shirts I have found:

<snip: spam>

Dannie

post-8285-1276332712_thumb.jpg

Edited by softwareNerd
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Dannie,

It's about time Israel joined the real world in this regard, and put out information (like you are doing) about the truth of what's going on there.

They have left it very late, so much so that the propaganda-disinformation-war has long been won by her enemies, I believe.

Why is this? What did Israel have against media Public Relations, do you think?

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Dannie,

It's about time Israel joined the real world in this regard, and put out information (like you are doing) about the truth of what's going on there.

They have left it very late, so much so that the propaganda-disinformation-war has long been won by her enemies, I believe.

Why is this? What did Israel have against media Public Relations, do you think?

When your closest allies insult you and demean you for building homes and then call you a fascist for trying to defend yourself, would you be in a talkative mood?

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When your closest allies insult you and demean you for building homes and then call you a fascist for trying to defend yourself, would you be in a talkative mood?

If you're right, and I do think there's some understandable stubborn pride involved, btw, this is rationalization and self-justification on Israel's part.

They have - to the best of my knowledge - little to feel ashamed about (especially by comparison to those who wish them ill), so to retreat in to hurt silence, is not fully rational, and definitely self-defeating.

An innocent and moral man does not fear 'visibility', and others' judgement,( we know), and nor should a nation.

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These are tough times for Israel. The current Turkish aid ship affair is not going well with the world media and Israel is losing the fight on this frontier.

Most of the world media is pretty useless and non-objective. So, I don't think convincing them should be the goal.

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What Israel says is irrelevant to the world media and European governments: Israel is defending itself; Israel is big; Israel is not sacrificing for the weak; Israel is fighting for its freedom; Israel is acting selfishly. Therefore, it is wrong.

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What Israel says is irrelevant to the world media and European governments: Israel is defending itself; Israel is big; Israel is not sacrificing for the weak; Israel is fighting for its freedom; Israel is acting selfishly. Therefore, it is wrong.

Agreed. That is the twisted perception and double standard commonly applied to this good nation being condemned for being good - and for being strong.

But don't you think that self-defence in this increasingly p.c., and shallow, unthinking, world also means disseminating information about your country in an honest, forthright and fearless manner?

Public opinion (mostly irrational) can and does affect national policy, regrettably.

Israel could go it alone, at a pinch, but well appreciates the value of her allies, and her trading partners.

Decades ago, Hezbollah printed in their "Principles of War" this statement:

"The Media has innumerable guns, whose hits are like bullets. Use them in battle."

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Why do we care?

Israelis, while certainly being better than the countries around them, are very unamerican. They have mandatory military service ! They are very collectivist, and border on being fascist.

That being said, I think a big reason why they just don't end this right now (like they could at any moment) is that they fear being treated like a rogue state. I don't think they want to be economically and culturally stranded in the middle east.

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Israelis (...) are very unamerican. They have mandatory military service !

So did America, not so long ago - namely, when faced with a war that threatened her very existence. Which happens to be exactly Israel's situation from the start. While few if any here will argue in favor of mandatory service of any sort, mandatory military duty can hardly be considered the hallmark of un-americanism you make it out to be.

Why care? A country that recongnizes individual rights and freedoms (imperfectly, granted) is besieged by totalitarian theocracies - who happen to be a threat to America as well (and would clearly like to be more of a threat). To the extent that defeating this common enemy increases the safety of America and americans, you should care.

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Israelis, while certainly being better than the countries around them, are very unamerican. They have mandatory military service !

Israel is not perfect, but with a country of 5.7 million people, surrounded by murderous totalitarian and authoritarian dictatorships intent on their destruction, they are in an emergency situation. It is not like America, you cannot compare Israel to a secure European country with no real enemies, no threat - Israelis live under a constant existential threat, the choice is compulsory military service or destruction and genocide... not much of a choice. You could argue that people would volunteer willingly for service as survival is in their interests, but you cannot criticise them for it as it is an emergency situation. Israel would not have military service were it not absolutely necessary. I hope you don't judge the UK because we had the draft and food rationing during WWII.

They are very collectivist, and border on being fascist.

What is your definition of fascist? How does Israel meet that definition? It is not a term you should use lightly.

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Why do we care?

Israelis, while certainly being better than the countries around them, are very unamerican. They have mandatory military service ! They are very collectivist, and border on being fascist.

Leave out the military draft, and you might as well be talking about the USA.

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  • 1 month later...

I live in isreal. And I know whats happening here: There is no spesific moral code running the country.

The purpose of this country is not formally and CLEARLY defined. Add to it the current democratic system and it Lead to much uncertainty.

Its this half and half shit. Half democratic Half religios=jewish. Half socialist Half capitalist.

Let me tell you about myself so you can get the case:

I am 18 years old and in few monthes I will be forced by "law" to go to the army for 3 years.

I won't even get paid for this. After that I will probbebly go to the university to get a "well paid" job- but the government will tax 50% of my income. Thats the case with my father. He still wants to live here for some acstract reason (jewish victim identity) and he keeps pushing me to serve the country.

I got the highest grades on my highschool- which is MOFET program-and not govroment conrolled. Probeblly the best education you can get here. I think I do have potential... a lot more then most people here.

I have been in goveranment conrolled public school for 1 year. And let me tell you- they worship mediocrity.

I think for myself, But I am a very rare case here.

I do come from a jewish familly but I don't bulive in that, And I don't want to live this jewish victim identity. I am an atheist, an invidual- and I live for my own sake. Not for Isreal. Not for the jewish collective. Not for my familly. Just for me. Selfish.

I get pressure from EVERYWHERE to be mediocre and altruist.

I have dreams, big dreams- opening my own buisness, traveling the world, living a life of my own design- making moeny.. But if I will continue to live in isreal I will probbley have no chance of getting any of that.

So I happened to live in Australia when I was young and I learned english also on my own, IMO my english is perfect and I can live abroad easly. I am planing to leave the country one day. Exept for my familly and friends, Why should I stay here? If I could move to USA or another normal country to work get education there I would leave NOW. But can I?

Thats what happening to Isreal. All the tallanted people are leaving. Atlas Shrugged.

In few years only looters and stupied unintellegent "faith" and hippie people will be left here. You go out to the streets and see what happens.

TONS of people here don't even work. PUBLIC medical system. PUBLIC education. PUBLIC ARMY SERVICE. Got the point right? :)

Most people get their morality from the media and public schools.

From a very young age a certain identity, religion and morality is PUSHED upon everyone here by the media, the army and the government controlled schools.

And thats the morality of Altruizem.

When I graduated highschool they pointed us some local characters who dedicated their lifes for public service and told us how great they are.

Whenever some indevidual happens to make something big here, for exmeple to get a noble prize, or open a profiting high tech buisness they tell how great the country is to allow it to him. Alow?! HUH?! I think how the *** did he manneged to do that here? with the 50%+ tax rate, shitty public education and 3years of army service?!

('cause their customers and investors are from USA and the rest of the world, thats why)

There is a wierd trend going on here latly and its called "service year".

The indevidual takes 1 year of his life beofore he goes to the army and dedicates it to selfless public service.

Than after they finish they go into the army for 3 more years of public service.

And than at age 22-23 they finish army- with no education, no money and no job. GREAT.

The governament and shcools really recommand that BTW.

There is also something here called "KIBOTSIM" which are little communist zionist communities inside the country. Most of them collapsed...Thouse who manneged to stay alive did it 'cause of industrialist buisnesses in them.

Add to that all the wars going on with the islamic nations, and all the bans on isreali made products.

Why Isreal still exists? 'cause a lot of people around the world hate jews. See the holacost in WW2. So the jewish communite supports it. and tallented people dedicate thier lives to it.

Ayn Rand was born to a jewish familly, she didn't bulive in that. but she recognizes the sorce of hate for jewish people, and a lot of other problems.

Collectives. Unthinking masses. FAITH vs Reason. Altruisem. Rule by FORCE and not by intelect and rationality.

I bulive in the same thing.

Btw Dr. Yaron Brook who is the persident of Ayn Rand Instetute also comes from a jewish family, and he left isreal-'cause he bulives in the same things.

If you tell me 1 way I can escape Isreal and live a life of my own design I am going for it right now.

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Dannie,

It's about time Israel joined the real world in this regard, and put out information (like you are doing) about the truth of what's going on there.

They have left it very late, so much so that the propaganda-disinformation-war has long been won by her enemies, I believe.

Why is this? What did Israel have against media Public Relations, do you think?

The facts are plentiful and so patently obvious that you have to deliberately and consciously ignore them; facts are irrelevant to the critics of Israel. They hate Israel because it stands for nationhood, in an era where old-fashioned notions of national sovereignty should have been washed away by the benevolent forces of the EU/UN kumbaya chorus. See above.

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