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Request, to minister

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zuke

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I (a very active rock climber socially and physically) am apart of a couple different online climbing forums.

I have tried to actively contributed to political forums, and have noticed(most climbers are dems-and are all for Obama) I’m uncertain on most views of you on this sight, in terms of Obama-McCain, or Obama as a separate.

But either way, why haven’t the knowledgeable objectivist ministered the philosophy to others(bulk population or not). - I know it’s hard to teach a completely different ethic to an “old dog”, but why not educate them through debate? Do you believe it’s above you? Or against the “ethics”?

I’m all ears, and would love all types of reply.

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But either way, why haven’t the knowledgeable objectivist ministered the philosophy to others(bulk population or not). - I know it’s hard to teach a completely different ethic to an “old dog”, but why not educate them through debate? Do you believe it’s above you? Or against the “ethics”? I’m all ears, and would love all types of reply.

I question whether debate is the best way to spread ideas. Changing the mind of a direct opponent is a vanishingly rare occurance. Knowledgeable Objectivists do work to spread ideas through the culture in a variety of ways. Are you familiar with the work done by the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights? The Anthem Foundation? FIRM? The various members of Diana Hsieh's OActivist list? Objectivists speak at Tea Party rallies, publish op-eds, write magazine articles and letters to the editor, record podcasts, give television and radio interviews... the list goes on and on. I'm actually a bit baffled by your question. Is there some specific thing you think Objectivists could be doing to better spread their ideas that they aren't doing?

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Well, I notice that these are all groups/rallies, where the individual itself is choosing to go or wanting to know more.

Where as a debate, or "ministering" would inform the ignorant or opposed persons.--Much like any other philosophy. ex. missionaries, political campaigns, billboards. I think that list goes on too.

I guess, (as a very new naive objectivist) I am not impressed on how far it's come.

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Well, I notice that these are all groups/rallies, where the individual itself is choosing to go or wanting to know more.

There's no way to educate a person who doesn't want to know. If a person isn't interested, trying to push ideas on them will just make them hostile and resentful. You can't force a mind.

Where as a debate, or "ministering" would inform the ignorant or opposed persons.

Back in the 1980's there were a number of "Capitalism vs. Socialism" debates between Objectivists and socialists at various university campuses. People had to choose to go to those too, you know. ARI intellectuals regularly engage in panel discussions on current events topics. I know Yaron Brook and Onkar Ghate have engaged in debates on just war theory and Objectivism. Etc.

Much like any other philosophy. ex. missionaries, political campaigns, billboards.

Missionaries? You mean like going door-to-door and asking people to accept John Galt into their lives? On a purely practical level there aren't enough Objectivists for such an approach to be workable. I also doubt its effectiveness -- knocking on random doors is not a good way to find people interested in ideas. Getting involved in local Tea Party activism seems like it would give much better return on effort. Political campaigns are expensive, and the culture isn't ready for an overt Objectivist political candidate to be elected. (Some have run, without success.) I know Yaron Brook gave an address to the Virginia GOP a year or two ago, so there is some engagement on an intellectual level. I know one person in Florida put up a billboard advertising his local community group.

In the end it's a question of resources, and how to most effectively employ them given that we don't have the time, money or people to do everything.

I guess, (as a very new naive objectivist) I am not impressed on how far it's come.

I think you lack perspective. I've been studying Objectivism for 23 years now, and I'm actually quite impressed by how much the movement has grown -- particularly in the last decade. The level of energy and professionalism has improved by leaps and bounds. That said, more is always possible. I'd like to see a greater penetration of Objectivist-influenced product into non-intellectual areas of the culture. How about a series of satirical viral YouTube videos?

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There's no way to educate a person who doesn't want to know. If a person isn't interested, trying to push ideas on them will just make them hostile and resentful. You can't force a mind.

I don’t believe so! , My case was, after a month long argument with a friend, Christianity vs objectivism. I decided to look into it and research it myself—So, I believe in arguing a reasonable case(objectivism) will always out beat a fraud(Christianity)

Missionaries? You mean like going door-to-door and asking people to accept John Galt into their lives? On a purely practical level there aren't enough Objectivists for such an approach to be workable. I also doubt its effectiveness -- knocking on random doors is not a good way to find people interested in ideas.

This is exactly what I mean, I know it can seem quite hopeless, but it COULDN’T hurt. (I don’t go door to door, but I do ask everyone about their thoughts on philosophy. (the majority seem, not care to think of it, I personally think it’s because most people are giving up on Christianity more and more, but! Don’t know any other way to live their life.

How about a series of satirical viral YouTube videos?

Sound like the best and most effective way to reach out in our modern day society. But what would be the topic purpose of the video?, I think it’d have to be a debate type based scenario. To convey a quick and easy to understand message.

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My case was, after a month long argument with a friend, Christianity vs objectivism. I decided to look into it and research it myself—So, I believe in arguing a reasonable case(objectivism) will always out beat a fraud(Christianity)

I disagree. Many Christians are so committed to faith that they will simply reject rational arguments out-of-hand when they conflict with dogma. You can't persuade a person like that with logic and evidence, because they've already decided to go with faith when they sense a conflict. Some Christians are more honest than that, but that doesn't mean a church social is a good hunting ground.

This is exactly what I mean, I know it can seem quite hopeless, but it COULDN’T hurt.

It can hurt, if the time and energy you spend doing it would have produced better results applied in some other way. Everybody's time is limited, and each of us has to decide how best to spend it in advancing our own values.

(I don’t go door to door, but I do ask everyone about their thoughts on philosophy...

I certainly introduce philosophical ideas into personal conversations when and as appropriate.

But what would be the topic purpose of the video?, I think it’d have to be a debate type based scenario. To convey a quick and easy to understand message.

Beats me. I'm not particularly creative that way. Sometimes I wish I were. One thought would be a series of videos that connect various concrete policies that people find absurd or offensive with the abstract ideas stated by various statist intellectuals and politicians, with the tagline "Brother, you asked for it!" The goal would be to show people that the concretes they reject are the logical consequence of the abstract ideas they accept.

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Being relatively new to Objectivism myself I've tried to vehemently argue students of theology and philosophy out of their positions. While my arguments have become clearer and cleverer I've found that its nearly impossible to change someone's mind through debate. Someone may change his own mind by engaging in a candid discussion with you, but otherwise you won't be able to help. It might be useful to spend time arguing with worthwhile adversaries if you can find them (for your education), but its not worthwhile to try to influence other people. That being said there are drastic efforts underway to 'spread Objectivism'.

Most major colleges in the United States have campus clubs which correspond with the Ayn Rand Institute and promote philosophical inquiry, ARI speakers, and Objectivist literature. On our campus we distribute The Undercurrent and have had multiple ARI funded public speaking events. While the ARI has other initiatives geared at educating America's youth, the greatest way to spread Objectivism is of course by example. If rational egoism teaches you anything it should be that the best way to help other people is to help yourself.

Edited by Q.E.D.
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