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Bush's Religion Not A Threat

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As the election approaches, I want to make a final plea to vote for Bush.

Some Objectivists who are voting for Kerry argue that electing Bush would pose a greater danger from the Religious Right than we face from the Left.

I believe the threat of a theocracy in America in the next few decades is mistaken, because there is too much opposition. I see too many obstacles in daily life.

Let's look at where we are politically and culturally compared to, say, the 1950s. What were things like back then? Abortion was illegal. School prayer was widespread and often mandatory -- and uncontroversial. Segregation was accepted. Radio, television and movie content was far more conformist and aimed toward the suburban middle class; controversial content was rare.

There is simply no way today's culture would let any of these things return. Even if abortion were illegal in, say, Utah, California and New York voters would never ban it. If school prayer were mandatory for every child in the country, so what? Many older Objectivists managed to live with it. Would people really turn away from "The Simpsons" or reality TV to watch a televangelist? Not in significant numbers.

Some advocate programs like mandatory service for high school students for religious reasons, but some advocate it for different reasons. Both do so because they believe altruism is moral. Keeping the explicitly religious advocates out of power will not stop those who are altruistic for other reasons.

I work with many conservative engineers. Most are religious, but in the "Sunday Christian" sense. The few who talk about Bible study groups or prayer meetings are almost entirely of an older generation. Most engineers I know in their 20's and 30's do not treat religion as a serious issue. Some go to church every week; one fellow prays before every meal. But most are agnostic, either in the sense that God's existence can't be proved or disproved, or in the sense that the issue doesn't affect one's life.

Those who wish to believe we face an imminent threat of theocracy need to clarify the path such an encroachment of our rights will take. Even the religious people I know do not want or advocate the forced conversion of the country.

We aren't miles from becoming another Iran; we're light-years away.

One other point: electing Kerry will not stop them. I saw a poll a few weeks ago that evangelical Christians support Bush over Kerry by a factor of 2:1. While this group leans to Bush, by no means are they united. After all, many of Kerry's positions are altruistic -- in many cases more so than Bush's. The more consistent religious voter would, I think, pull the lever for Kerry.

Finally, if one votes for Kerry in the hopes that the GOP will next time nominate a less religious candidate, how does one prevent them from misinterpreting the loss to mean that a more religious candidate is desired? I've never understood the logic of voting against a candidate to "send a message", since there is no way to specify the content of that message.

In fact, since the war is the major issue this election, a Bush loss will tell the GOP that the public wants a weaker President, one who will ask the UN or NATO or the EU for permission to defend itself. This election is nothing less than a referendum on Bush's "cowboy" image: does the American public support that image or not?

(I realize he is not quite the cowboy in actual fact, but it is by that image that he is known -- by the public, by world leaders, by his supporters, and by his opponents.)

In summary, I encourage people not to vote for Kerry. We do not face an imminent religious threat. Electing Kerry would not reduce significantly the spread of religion. Electing Kerry would tell the world that we reject the "cowboy" approach to fighting terrorists.

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I agree with Ed completely. In this election, we've got to perform triage; the combined dangers of socialism and pacifism are far worse than any religious initiatives the Republicans can muster up, not only because they are inherently worse, but also because they strike right at the heart of the American spirit, making it indistinguishable from the "comfy" capitalism and internationalism of Europe. There is a psychological hit to be had when we can no longer pride ourselves as being the cowboy capitalists with same-day-air bombers.

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Great post Ed.

One thing some people forget is that religion isn't just opposed to Objectivism. To the degree that someone is religious, he is at war with reality. That puts him in on the losing side.

I know that and our enemies know that. Osama & Co. see that religion can't compete with reality. Islam is losing their faithful, and especially their young, to the secular sirens calling to them from American TV programs, movies, books, and web sites dressed in bikinis and jeans, driving sports cars, listening to music, and drinking Coca Cola. That's why they had to attack us.

Compare the US with genuinely religious cultures like medieval Europe or Taliban Afghanistan. The US is a nation of happy, prosperous, self-confident individualists instead of subsistence-level, disease-ridden, fearful serfs cowering in guilt before tyrants because we are primarily rational and never have been all that religious.

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Great post Ed.

One thing some people forget is that religion isn't just opposed to Objectivism.  To the degree that someone is religious, he is at war with reality.  That puts him in on the losing side.

I know that and our enemies know that.  Osama & Co. see that religion can't compete with reality.  Islam is losing their faithful, and especially their young, to the secular sirens calling to them from American TV programs, movies, books, and web sites dressed in bikinis and jeans, driving sports cars, listening to music, and drinking Coca Cola.  That's why they had to attack us.

ahh. The allure of mass consumerism! I once lived in a foreign country myself and have witnessed first-hand the effects of American pop culture on the younger generation! My very own aunts, uncles, and grandparents are bemoaning how their children and grandchildren are becoming "Americanized".

It's just incredible to witness the influence of American culture abroad.

Compare the US with genuinely religious cultures like medieval Europe or Taliban Afghanistan.  The US is a nation of happy, prosperous, self-confident individualists instead of subsistence-level, disease-ridden, fearful serfs cowering in guilt before tyrants because we are primarily rational and never have been all that religious.

It's still a bit paradoxical to me, though, that considering how secular Americans' lifestyle is, an overwhelming majority still claim to 'believe in God' in contrast to Western Europeans.

Why?

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It's just incredible to witness the influence of American culture abroad.

It's still a bit paradoxical to me, though, that considering how secular Americans' lifestyle is, an overwhelming majority still claim to 'believe in God' in contrast to Western Europeans.

Why?

Why not? What does God have to do with anything anyway? Most Americans are neither atheists nor real theists. I call them APAtheists.

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It's still a bit paradoxical to me, though, that considering how secular Americans' lifestyle is, an overwhelming majority still claim to 'believe in God' in contrast to Western Europeans.

Why?

Many U. S. residents claim to "believe in God" because implicitly they recognize the need to have a foundation for one's beliefs about life and the world. God is that foundation because, being omnipotent, he is the cause of all things. Such believers know they need something, and no one has offered them anything but religion (which is the set of beliefs and practices that supposedly come from God). Mainstream philosophy certainly offers them nothing as a foundation. (Objectivism has not yet permeated the culture enough to be an alternative readily at hand.)

The study of God, theology, is the equivalent of philosophy's branch, ontology (metaphysics). It is the foundation and therefore explanation of all that rests on it: how we know things (epistemology) and what we should do about what we know (ethics). So, saying one believes in God provides comfort in believing that one has a foundation. The disjunction comes, of course, when they try to connect up that foundation with a selfish, this-worldly lifestyle. But most "religious" people of this type don't spend much time connecting the dots.

So, I see an essentially secular culture saying it believes in God to be a relatively positive sign, certainly compared to the angst-ridden, ennui-ladden and supposedly less religious culture of Western Europe.

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Many U. S. residents claim to "believe in God" because implicitly they recognize the need to have a foundation for one's beliefs about life and the world. God is that foundation because, being omnipotent, he is the cause of all things. Such believers know they need something, and no one has offered them anything but religion (which is the set of beliefs and practices that supposedly come from God). Mainstream philosophy certainly offers them nothing as a foundation. (Objectivism has not yet permeated the culture enough to be an alternative readily at hand.)

I don't know. The religious people I have met over the internet and in real life believe in God because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, because it gives them a sense of comfort that God will take care of everything (as if they are babies!) and allows them to easily evade the fact that death is the end; once they die everything is finished.

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I don't know. The religious people I have met over the internet and in real life believe in God because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy, because it gives them a sense of comfort that God will take care of everything (as if they are babies!) and allows them to easily evade the fact that death is the end; once they die everything is finished.

Wouldn't you prefer warm, fuzzy comfort and hope to the "secular" view that life is meaningless, purposeless misery and nothing makes sense?

Until we give people a better way to guide their lives and deal with reality, religion is the best they've got.

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Wouldn't you prefer warm, fuzzy comfort and hope to the "secular" view that life is meaningless, purposeless misery and nothing makes sense?

Until we give people a better way to guide their lives and deal with reality, religion is the best they've got.

Most americans seem to have a small core of enlightment values in them with christianity and a little bit of leftism in them. But the more they enter academia the more leftist they get.

And since most of the collages in america are leftist, the more americans atent these places the more they are likely to be "progressive". But right now there is a war going on in collages where conservatives,libertarians and "THE RIGHT" in general are trying to get control of these institutions.

And i think if "the Right" succeds in getting some control in these instutions most of the victory will be for the conservatives since they are the majority,so doesnt the religious threat really come from conservatives getting control of academia not geroge bush?

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Great post Ed.  I agree 100%

Actually, since I can't edit I have to add this.

Before voting for Bush, take a look at this. Are these the kind of folks supporting Bush in this election? Is this an actual "mainstream" belief that man is so evil? I really hate to polute this board with such evil, but I think it's worth reading.

A Declaration of Life

Sanctity of Life Sunday

Prepared by Doug Phillips

The Bible tells us to "be always ready to give an answer of the hope that is within us." The message of the Gospel is inherently life-affirming message of hope, yet many Christians still struggle with the answers to the defining crime of our generation---Abortion. The following declaration has been drafted to equip Christians to affirm and to proclaim a consistent life ethic in the midst of a dark generation.

Sufficiency of Scripture

Whereas, Christians are not to look to popular wisdom, the opinions of secular authorities, or personal emotions to resolve ethical issues, because the Bible is a complete and sufficient guide for all of faith and practice, including all ethical matters concerning life, conception, abortion, euthanasia, etc, and

Satan At War With Children

Whereas, Holy Scripture declares that Satan, who has been a murderer and a liar from the beginning, has always been at war against the godly seed; and

Personhood at Conception

Whereas, the Bible affirms that the unborn baby is a person created in the image of God, possessing an eternal soul and bearing the nature of Adam at the moment of conception; and

Fruitfulness Commanded

Whereas, a primary purpose of marriage is the bringing forth of a godly seed, and God commands husbands and wives to actively seek to be fruitful, subject to the will and mercy of the Lord; and

Children A Blessing

Whereas, God declares children to be a blessing and a source of true wealth and happiness regardless of health, physical attributes, or gender; and

Inalienable Right To Life

Whereas, the human personhood of the unborn child is what distinguishes it from all other creatures and things, and is the basis for its inalienable legal and moral right to life; and

God the Author of Life

Whereas, notwithstanding the agency of men and women in the process of procreation, God is the exclusive Author of Life who determines when to open and close the womb; and

Life is An Inherent Good

Whereas, all human life comes from God, is possessing of an eternal soul, and such life is an inherent good, worthy of preservation; and

Quality of Life Arguments Invalid

Whereas, no other human, parent, judge or legislator has the right to determine which persons should live and which must die based on their perception of the quality of the life of those persons; and

Biblical Basis for Killing

Whereas the only biblical basis for taking the life of another is in the cases of self defense against a willful aggressor, defense of others, or capitol punishment, when acting under the jurisdiction of the State; and

Unborn Child Is A Distinct Person

Whereas, the unborn child is an individual person at conception made in the image of God, and possessing of biblically established legal rights distinct from that of its mother; and

Pro-Life, No Exceptions

Whereas those theories which justify the killing of unborn child on the basis of the circumstances of conception (as in the case of rape and incest), or even the life of the mother, are completely false because they are based on unbiblical and humanistic ethics, as well as a rejection of the personhood of the child; and

Continuing Relevance of All of Scripture

Whereas the Holy Scripture is a unity which reflects the unchanging righteousness of God, and communicates his unchanging character, and the perfect harmony of those principles which under gird His law as expressed in both the Old and New Testament dispensations; and

Abortion is A Capitol Offense

Whereas, God has declared in his Word that whosoever wrongfully takes the life of an unborn child shall be guilty of a capitol crime; and

Christians To Proclaim Righteousness To Civil Leaders

Whereas, from Jonah to John the Baptist, God has called upon the people of God to proclaim righteousness to the political leaders of the land, to urge them to repent for idolatry and immorality; and

Child Sacrifice A Basis For National Judgment

Whereas child sacrifice and moral perversion have always been two bases for national judgment on the part of our righteous Lord; and

Euthanasia Unbiblical

Whereas God not only gives life, but he takes it, man does not have the right to consciously and prematurely terminate the life of another because of age, preference, inconvenience or health; and

Civil Government Established to Protect the Innocent

Whereas, the first principle of lawful government as communicated in Holy Scripture is the preservation of innocent life; and

God's Law Trumps Man's Law

Whereas, no man-made or judge-interpreted law can ever trump the eternal will and moral law of God, and, consequently, any man-made laws which call for child sacrifice are to be rejected by private individuals, elected officials and magistrates alike; and

The People of God Must Examine Themselves

Whereas, (1) many Christians have adopted the anti-life, anti-child philosophies and practices of the age, (2) many Church leaders have been reluctant to teach the whole counsel of God by communicating God's love for all children, or to warn and exhort them, as commanded by Scripture, to resist the false philosophies and practices of the day; and (3) some, professing to be believers bought by the blood of Jesus who have been elevated to legal and political positions of influence, have actively failed to stand on the side of the unborn, in some cases actually facilitated the holocaust of abortion, and

Judgment Begins With Christians

Whereas, our first concern, over and above the wicked practices of heathen leaders and legislators should be with the actions, attitudes and behavior of those who profess to be in the Church of Jesus Christ, because judgment begins in the House of God

We do hereby call upon the people of God to:

Honor God as the author of life, and seek to embrace a consistent ethic for life;

Repent and turn from any and all anti-child, anti-life philosophies and practices;

Embrace all children as a blessing from the Lord, and a godly seed as a primary objective for marriage;

Actively and self-consciously seek to obey the commands of Scripture to be fruitful and multiply.

To stand on the side of the unborn by declaring that all intentional abortions, without exception, are murder in the eyes of the Lord, and to be opposed.

We do hereby call upon the leaders of this blessed nation to:

1) To acknowledge God as the only author and destroyer of life in the womb;

2) To acknowledge the personhood of the unborn child, and their inalienable right to life, thus rejecting all forms of abortion without exception;

3) To publicly repent of and turn from our national sins of child sacrifice and patricide;

4) To publicly and actively oppose, and diligently work for the termination of all forms of child sacrifice and harvesting within our nation;

5) To enforce the eternally binding law of God, appropriately summarized in our national charter, The Constitution, which declares "no person shall be deprived of life?without due process of law."

6) To refrain from appointing to any position of public trust any person who would facilitate, enforce, fund or offer moral support to those people and organizations in the business of promoting abortion.

7) Seek God, while there is yet time, that he would withhold his hand of judgment.

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First off, Ed great post.

Toolboxnj:

Scary! I seriously hope that "mainstream" America does not hold that view. What I've found, with my friends and classmates, is that most of the people who believe in God are simply indoctrinated with it and honestly do not think about it much. They are not anti-man or anything, they just sort of accept God without thinking and move on.

One thing that has been puzzling to me is it seems like most of the Christian church would be more left than right. The whole "you are your brothers keeper" and "love your neighbor as yourself" are extremely collectivist statements. It seems like most "Christians" would feel obligated to take care of the poor and less well-off. Yet these are more leftist views, while people associate the right with religion. Is there something I'm missing here? Could somebody try to explain?

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If I were an evangelical christian, I would vote Democrat. The reasons are simple: the Republicans talk the talk on "important" issues like abortion and gay marriage, but they don't walk the walk. To the extent that they do act, it is ineffectual because the country is not ready to change. Meanwhile, when it comes to christian issues of helping the poor and turning the other cheek the Democrats are true heroes.

According to exit polls, over 30% of people who identify themselves as evangelical chritians voted for Kerry. These are the smarter ones. :dough:

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Found at http://www.capmag.com/shownews.asp#1289

In an election where voters said moral values were the primary issue, Bush cautioned against suggestions that the United States was becoming politically divided by religion. 'I will be your president regardless of your faith, and I don't expect you to agree with me necessarily on religion,' Bush said. 'As a matter of fact, no president should ever try to impose religion on our society. ...The great thing that unites is the fact you can worship freely if you choose, and if you -- you don't have to worship.'"

From Yahoo News

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just saw the movie "Kinsey," in which Liam Neeson portrays the author of the famous study on human sexuality. This movie is particularly excellent at immersing the audience in the puritanical culture which Kinsey fought against.

The best part, for me, was the reaction of the audience. When the most absurd claims about sex were presented, the audience laughed. We've come such a long way from that time that these notions are not just quaint or old fashioned, but don't even deserve to be taken seriously. (Examples: there's only one position; foreplay is unnecessary; cunnilingus leads to problems delivering babies; etc.)

This is the culture we live in. Sex is out of the closet. Knowledge about it is "out there" -- in schools, on TV, in books, in playground discussions, on the Internet. Even if tomorrow Bush wanted to put the genie back in the bottle, he couldn't. It would take such a massive effort that it could not succeed. Even if he did shut every bookstore in America, how could he stop the internet?

The facts of human sexuality are so widely known and available, thanks to science, that the myths and misconceptions of a moralistic medieval mindset can gain no widespread acceptance in the modern world.

This is one more data point for my argument that we are far, far from a return to those days, let alone the establishment of a Christian Republic of America.

P.S.: The movie was excellent. I'm not familiar with the details of the actual facts of the story, but if the movie is remotely close to the truth (as I believe it to be) then Kinsey deserves to be granted Sainthood for leading the charge for separation of church and sex. (No puns about Catholic priests intended...)

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  • 4 months later...

In Britain, the Archbishop of Canterbury is asking for an urgent review of the laws on abortion. Is the "Christian right" stirring across the pond too? Will the Tories, seeking power, play the "religion card"? Any views from forum members from Britain?

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