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French objectivist novel banned in its own country.

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RichardP
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Grandoria, a French objectivist novel and a dystopia, written by the author Dominique Raymond Poirier and published earlier this year, is now banned on nearly all French literary forums, websites and media.

When explicitly formulated, justifications supporting this ban range from “libertarian propaganda” to “far-rightist literature”.

One among the most explicit negative criticisms stated: “Along with Atlas Shrugged, previously named, Grandoria is a work of libertarian propaganda (…)” (“Tout comme Atlas Shrugged qui a déja été cité, Grandoria est une oeuvre de propagande libertarienne (...)

Written in French language only, Grandoria remains publicly available in North America in hardcover and ebook Kindle versions on Amazon.com, and it continues receiving positive criticism from French-speaking U.S. and Canadian readers.

(see Wikipedia for more on Grandoria)

Grandoria (dystopian novel)

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Seems self explanatory.

Are you using 'banned' to mean 'censored'?

If somebody tells me something that I find harmless was banned, my reaction is to ask why. One way to do that is to find an explanation by someone who banned the book.

Another is to ask. Not speaking French, I chose the latter.

Edited by freestyle
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If somebody tells me something that I find harmless was banned, my reaction is to ask why. One way to do that is to find an explanation by someone who banned the book.

Another is to ask. Not speaking French, I chose the latter.

But you asked him about "official action" - which his post doesn't seem to suggest.

I took his post to mean banned in the same manner that members can be banned from this community - owner/operators of "French literary forums, websites and media" chose not to allow the book to be discussed/presented in the same way that moderators here can ban individual posters.

Granted, it's just my interpretation - but I'm confused as to what you saw in the OP that suggested anything official about it.

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Grandoria, a French objectivist novel and a dystopia, written by the author Dominique Raymond Poirier and published earlier this year, is now banned on nearly all French literary forums, websites and media.

Out of those three, only websites could possibly be said to have banned a book (specifically, websites which sell books). Forums and media outlets don't publish books (especially copyrighted ones).

So, can you name a specific website that refused to sell the book for political reasons? Also, is there any reason why the French can't just order it online?

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Official simply implies an authority. In this case, one or more figures with the power to ban a book from a website, forums and media. One can be "officially" banned from this forum. The moderators here hold that power.

I'm wondering what action was taken, and why?

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Official simply implies an authority. In this case, one or more figures with the power to ban a book from a website, forums and media. One can be "officially" banned from this forum. The moderators here hold that power.

I'm wondering what action was taken, and why?

Ah- now I understand. My apologies for the confusion.

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I'm kind of confused and the link you provided did not help. Your title implies the novel was banned in the country (as in no paper copies available), but your post makes it sound as if it was just banned on internet forums. Could you clarify.

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O.K. I elaborate about it.

It all began about a couple of weeks ago, when a fan of the book attempted to talk about the author on one of the main French sci-fi websites. At first, some members teamed up to claims, as if in a concert effect, that this visitor truly was the author himself attempting to self-promote his book. But coincidence made that the man in question was the webmaster of a website on sci-fi novels and sci-fi history, and he could prove it. Then they changed their mind and said he was his brother...

From then on, the webmaster reported to the author of Grandoria about the incident, and the former registered to this forum so as to introduce himself and fix the problem. But contrary to all expectations, several members of the forum harshly insulted the author instead of acknowledging they were wrong, on the ground that the author of Grandoria would be homophobic. So, Grandoria's author attempted to explain that such a claim was fair exaggeration, and he posted some excerpts of the book showing that this accusation was groundless – to no avail.

It didn’t change anything; forum's members insulted the author, fiercely this time, for no clear reason. They just said Dominique Raymond Poirier was, I quote, "a troll", without explaining what they means exactly.

A week later, another person experienced very similar problems on another of the three most popular French sci-fi forums, but those who harshly and contemptuously treated him appeared to be other peoples; the accusation shifted to “self-promotion” from the author and “libertarian propaganda”. This other person reported about it to Dominique Raymond Poirier too, and he equally reported that all his comments about Grandoria, or the book's author, posted on some other forums and websites were systematically deleted, without further explanation.

At this time, two peoples only openly said why Grandoria and his author are unwelcomed on French forums and websites, and I previously quoted them in my threadhead.

Beyond this, it is true that no French official ever said that Grandoria is banned in France, and as a matter of fact, no French official ever openly claimed a book was banned, when it was in effect, indeed. That’s the way things go on when such an issue arises in France.

But now, if ever one of you talks a bit of French language, then he will quickly realize that his attempts to talk about Grandoria on any French literary website will meet with contempt and hostility or, at best, with similar accusations - unless those people happen to read this thread and cautiously decide to change their attitude, which would put a good end to this story.

By the way, from personal experience, anyone trying to talk about Ayn Rand, and Atlas Shrugged more especially, will have to face the same hostility in France. I did it, and I can tell you that it’s true but in any other French speaking country - talking about Grandoria or Atlas Shrugged on Candian websites is not a problem, for instance.

Dominique Raymond Poirier, Grandoria’s author published everything about this affair today - in French, of course - on his Facebook page, which I often read. And he added the links where anyone can read everything I'm reporting about in here.

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I'm kind of confused and the link you provided did not help. Your title implies the novel was banned in the country (as in no paper copies available), but your post makes it sound as if it was just banned on internet forums. Could you clarify.

I am a bilingual Canuckistani and followed the links to Facebook and to the two forums noted. There is some apparent suspicion that a newbie poster is actually the author (/a brother or friend of the author) of Children of Grandoria, and so suspicion that the newbie is indulging in a bit of (hidden) self-promotion. These are huge forums with very large readership.

As far as I can tell there is no banning or 'censoring' of discussion, just a rather dire dismissiveness and suspicious/supercilious attitudes. In the context of French literary squabbles, this is not particularly notable -- not to take a swing at 'The French' or anything, but the world of literature is taken much much more seriously in France than the average North American can comprehend . . . and the ability to be scornful and dismissive and arch has been taken to a level that is breathtaking at times.

Perhaps the author (RichardP) can give some direct links to the worst of the commentary to illustrate the kind of reception his book has received? I would be happy to translate.

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William Scott Scherk,

On this thread, the person named “Hilare” has just been treated with contempt and be answered unclear allusions I cannot understand myself:

The Culture SF discussion

That’s also where it is said at some point that “Grandoria, along with Atlas Shrugged , are works of libertarian propaganda”.

Now, on this other thread,

The Actu SF discussion

you will find no less than five pages of posts which are nothing but wanton collective mockery, insults and the like directed this time, both, against another person wrongly accused of being Dominique Raymond Poirier, and Dominique Raymond Poirier himself who appeared later on this discussion.

Sorry, but it’s too long to paste all this on a comment, as you can see. Myself, I couldn't bear a quarter of the pails of manure these two persons were thrown in the head!

Moreover, even the Wikipedia page about Grandoria is now the object of a claim, just after I posted this thread today, sent by a Frenchmen posing with an English name, and who clumsily introduced himself as a person in direct connection with those who treated “Hilare” and “Grandoria” with contempt.

Let's quote this other person talking on the Wikipedia discussion index relating to Grandoria:

“Everybody on culture-sf is agree to think that Hilare is a false-name and, in fact, the author of this "fabulous french sci-fi book".

As everyone can read it, groundless accusations and scorn are present in this claim supposed to be objective.

Now, if all I said in this thread and all the author of Grandoria explained, plus the aforesaid latest attempt to censor Grandoria and his author even on Wikipedia, proof in hand, is still disputable in your own opinion, then let’s burry our head in the sand.

But seriously, at this point I believe that the question is no longer whether Dominique Raymond Poirier attempted to self-promote his book or not - which is not a crime, after all, if ever he did it - but why in Hell are those people attempting to make him and his book disapear ?

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Thanks for the links, Dominique. One question occurs to me . . . why do you use 'the author of Grandoria' and 'Dominique Raymond Poirier himself" rather than 'me'?

But seriously, at this point I believe that the question is no longer whether Dominique Raymond Poirier attempted to self-promote his book or not - which is not a crime, after all, if ever he did it - but why in Hell are those people attempting to make him and his book disapear ?

I don't know what to say, except to quote from a terrible/wonderful scene between Bette Davis and Joan Crawford in the movie Whatever Happened To Baby Jane. The Davis character had been systematically tormenting her sister, and now attempts to reason with her . . .

Crawford: You wouldn't be able to do these awful things to me if I wasn't still in this chair!

Davis: But you are, Blanche! You are in that chair!

Edited by William Scott Scherk
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By the way,

As I was perusing the thread on this forum - Culture SF - I stumbled across a thread the guy named “Hilare” posted on October 2, and it was not about Dominique Raymond Poirier and Grandoria. Instead, the title is, my translation from French:

"Who ever read Atlas Shrugged?" ("Qui a lu Atlas Shrugged?")

Then the guy ads further explanation about the Ayn Rand’s novel and calls for opinions.

Guess what? No one ever answered anything as yet, even not a “who is this author, actually?” or a mere “could you elaborate a bit about this book”, as you and many other did on this thread.

Please, don’t tell me it’s all about French cultural peculiarities!

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That's fine, William Scott Scherk,

then I know that you just come to realize what is at stake right now.

I didn't expect less from an Objectivist.

I'm not by any means an Objectivist, brother. An interested bystander, perhaps, and one with a great sympathy for folks 'up against the machine,' but not an adherent.

Good luck with the sales of your book. When I was in France I was surprised at the 'tightness' of what I could see of that culture. I remember being surprised at gardens in the suburbs of Paris -- so pruned and bollarded and crimped and gated and forced into conformity that it seemed the householders were angry with the poor shrubbery.

It wasn't till I spent some time in the Sauterne that I realized Paris wasn't France . . .

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Small world, says my personnal brain integrated syntaxical-behavioral analyzer, William Scott Scherk !

I hope this book will survive over progressism the way you are picturing it - as no one but you could do it - even if it's not mine.

See you, then, and pray for Dominique Raymond Poirier and me in the meantime, please.

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As far as I'm concerned, my only quibble with you is that you failed to distinguish between "hostile reception" and "ban", and therefor the thread title is misleading.

No amount of hostile reception amounts to a ban. The French are in fact still free to purchase, read and discuss the book in a variety of ways. They just don't seem to want to. That means it hasn't been banned.

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OK,

Thank for the lesson. From now on, I’ll know that if no one can talk about a book or anything else on the media in a given country, as if everyone knew what this book or this item is, then it means “hostile reception”.

The good news is that since Grandoria, and Atlas Shrugged were greeted with hostile reception, then it means that each and every French journalist, webmaster, blogger, etc., and all their readers as well, do know what these two books say.

Therefore, there is no need to say anything else about it, or even to put these books for sale anymore.

Good epistemology, but quite unexpected in America, and on an Objectivism forum.

Now , yes, my name is Dominique Poirier, and yes it means I’m the author of Grandoria, indeed, since I knew from experience that one is never given any credit when attempting to defend oneself. As a result, it didn’t change anything anyways, and it made my attempt to speak out the only receivable fault in the eye of all, among everything has been said on this thread – the whole of the rest doesn’t deserve any further consideration, or is pure imagination coming straight out of a mad mind.

Problem solved.

Good night.

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Now , yes, my name is Dominique Poirier, and yes it means I’m the author of Grandoria, indeed, since I knew from experience that one is never given any credit when attempting to defend oneself. As a result, it didn’t change anything anyways, and it made my attempt to speak out the only receivable fault in the eye of all, among everything has been said on this thread – the whole of the rest doesn’t deserve any further consideration, or is pure imagination coming straight out of a mad mind.

Hold on there Dominique no one here is saying that you made the whole thing up. However, honesty is a virtue and people here saw that you were posting under one name and referring to the author in the third person although that author is you. Wouldn't that make you suspicious?

Jake's mention of the difference between a ban and a hostile reception is justified considering your description of the events. Now this may just be a problem with translation but I agree with Jake that without the force of law, no ban has taken place.

Now if your argument is that the French Science Fiction community is so homogeneous that it's hostility toward the book is tantamount to censorship that may be a different matter, I don't know.

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Luck was on my side at some point, when some people made an incredible blunder, a few days ago.

I managed to find and retrieves proofs – I weight my word when I choose to say “proof” instead of evidence – showing that a group of Frenchmen who acted anonymously plotted to kill my book and my reputation, in France as in every French country where French language is commonly spoken.

It’s even much enough to bring the case before a justice court as the sales of my books on Amazon.com grinded to halt since a couple of weeks, now. That is to say, when my book and myself began to be attacked here and there on the Internet. All those people act under the guidance of one man only, interestingly enough.

One of those persons happens to be the same who is challenging the validity of the Wikipedia page on Grandoria, (see the discussion index of this page) and I hold a written statement from him saying that his aims were to prevent my book, Grandoria, from being read. The proprietors of the two mainstream French forums on sci-fi literature are personally involved in this conspiracy too.

I will add a link soon on this thread directing to a document exposing the whole conspiracy and its perpetrators, as the the English translation of the conversations I retrieved is a painstaking task.

Edited by RichardP
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