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Help put an end to the TSA madness

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Yaron Brook speaks out on the TSA Madness on PJTV here:

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=113&load=4505

Some good commentary.

I am in love with that bikini girl for her idea.

Also, as far as I am able to tell, the fears about radiation from the scanners are pure sensationalism:

http://news.discovery.com/human/travel-body-scanners-radiation.html

http://www.examiner.com/science-society-in-national/the-radiation-you-should-worry-about-and-the-radiation-you-can-fugetabout

http://www.examiner.com/science-society-in-national/what-full-body-scanner-radiation-means-to-you

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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In terms of anti-terrorist security measures , one has to ask: Why such focus of the government on "public safety" while flying? There are more people in a mall on any given weekend in America, or in a football stadium during a game or a concert, or using ground transit during rush hour. There are plenty of routinely much more crowded places than airports which can be a target of possible terrorist attack. Somehow the public remained safe for 10 years without these invasive measures.

TSA excuses make no sense.

Edited by ~Sophia~
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But this from one of the very links you posted above:

"When it comes to backscatter scanners, the technology is so new that it's fair to keep asking questions about their safety, especially for groups like pilots who are already getting exposed to a lot of radiation in their jobs, said medical physicist James Hevezi, chair of the American College of Radiation Medical Physics Commission."

The same government that keeps people from taking experiemental drugs voluntarily wants to force people through these machines that are a relatively unknown quantity. While many people are indeed reacting in a disproportionate manner to the potential radion threat again, in the links above some of the doctors concede that very frequent fliers already dace a lot of radiation.

Knowing that you are exposed to radiation just flying, why would you want to expose yourself to even more? I know several people who due to work need to fly international dozens of times a year... is it unreasonable for them to say "ok, I have to fly for work and that involves being exposed to some high levels of radiation.. but why should I be subjected arbitrarily by the government to even more radiation against my will?

Again, I don't see this as being an issue of how harmful the radiation may or may not be- it is about the government taking away the traveller's choice of what they will be exposed to and when.

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Another issue with the radiation is that while the machines are operating normally it may be a low level, if they malfunction, it's possible for them to deliver much higher doses of radiation. An example of this sort of thing happening is Therac-25, a radiation therapy machine that malfunctioned, exposing at least six patients to 100 times the intended dose of radiation, killing three of them. Peter Rez, a physics professor at Arizona State University, and one of the people often being quoted as saying that the scanners are safe, also said, "However, it's a mechanically scanned system, and if the scanning mechanism were to jam, something which is quite possible, then one could get a very high-level dose".

He also said that the chance of getting fatal cancer from them is 1 in 30 million. Approximately 560 million people fly per year in the U.S.

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Here are two relevant leaked documents from a site that is like Wikileaks that I visit:

An Official FDA Report on Airport Backscatter Machine Safety:

http://cryptome.org/0002/fda-body-spy.pdf

An Official US Dept. of Homeland Security TSA Document on them:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B68pzZ_iwaTNNjRlYmIzZGQtYzM4Zi00YWU0LWE3NmYtODRmZTY1ZDJiYzU2&hl=en&authkey=CNrFr8QH

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Curiouser and curiouser...

So my mother and sister just flew out to San Diego and back and did NOT have to go through either the full-body scanners or the invasive pat-down. They each just went through the normal metal detector and had their hands swabbed (presumably for explosives).

Apparently at certain airports they are NOT making everyone go through the enhanced screening, only certain people at random. This is, to me, definitive proof of security theater. I am glad my mom and sister were spared the humiliation.

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After going through the information in this thread and the various links, I've come to the conclusion that the 'scan or pat down' alternatives are unnecessary. I have realized that the TSA is unable to wield this power responsibly, that it does not prevent passengers from getting knives on board airplanes, that it represents an unprecedented action by the government directed at law abiding citizens, that there are better ways to go about increasing aerial security, I now feel certain that I am right in rejecting this. I hope this new power grab will be abolished soon. The fact that they've waited until after the elections is revealing, indeed.

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Here are some of the Politicians making money off of this:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/11/24/politicians-stakes-airport-scanner-companies/

I have already spoken about this on my facebook page:

Curiouser and curiouser...

So my mother and sister just flew out to San Diego and back and did NOT have to go through either the full-body scanners or the invasive pat-down. They each just went through the normal metal detector and had their hands swabbed (presumably for explosives).

Apparently at certain airports they are NOT making everyone go through the enhanced screening, only certain people at random. This is, to me, definitive proof of security theater. I am glad my mom and sister were spared the humiliation.

According to various YAL (Young American's for Liberty) members who I am friends with who have been passing around information flyers and the like:

"The TSA switched to metal detectors for the day because the TSA was not going to be made a fool of. As a result, it wasn't noticed really or made a big deal of since a lot of people didn't fly that day anyways. (Apparently Regan airport was the emptiest the guy had ever seen it) and since they were using regular security measures the TSA official boasted on ABC news that all of this was sensationalism and that they were glad that all of the flights were running on time etc. Yeah...of course they were, because none of the flight attendants were getting groped."

I have heard this from various other people as well, but I haven't seen it on any of the news (although I haven't look terribly hard) so I cannot completely verify this, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

Also for anyone who wants a laugh:

NeoCon Icon Emmett Tyrrell Changes View of Groping . . . syndicated editorial "I Was Wrong"

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/r-emmett-tyrrell-jr/2010/11/26/i-was-wrong-tsa-has-gone-overboard

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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Not to suggest any of this is good or appropriate, but why would you refuse to go through the scanners as opposed to the alternative?

I know this question was not directed at me but I also chose groping over the x-ray the last time I went to the airport. I've read numerous articles that claim that the x-rays increase people's chances to contract cancer. No institution has said they are safe (that I know of) besides the government. That makes me skeptical enough to avoid them.

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I know this question was not directed at me but I also chose groping over the x-ray the last time I went to the airport. I've read numerous articles that claim that the x-rays increase people's chances to contract cancer. No institution has said they are safe (that I know of) besides the government. That makes me skeptical enough to avoid them.

I've read numerous articles that claim that the x-rays increase people's chances to contract cancer. No institution has said they are safe (that I know of) besides the government.

This is simply untrue. Plenty of people have stated that these scanners are safe. I have even provided links in this thread and (I think) in the other TSA thread, I have trouble remembering what I put in which. The other claims are legitimate, but this radiation/cancer etc. fear has been sensationalized. The government underreported their findings (to the public) but even with the (we assume, since the conclusions as a whole have pretty much been along the same lines) accurate reports by independent groups it is still not something anyone here needs to worry about. The main fear regarding the scanners is the fact that they have been caught not censoring genitalia for instance (I suggest you google search to see what it actually looks like on there before making conclusions on that) and being caught keeping these images in a few instances, even though there were claims that they are (everywhere) deleted instantly after the scanning.

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...

I have never found a site that gives a response to the main criticism of the scanners. The critics hold the position (I believe originated by U of SF) that the x-rays are dangerous since they are concentrated just on the skin level (sorry don't know scientific term, epidermis maybe?). All articles that I have read seem to talk mainly about how the rays could have no harm since they are distributed throughout your entire body. I hope these people are wrong however since I would not like to go through the grope-fest again.

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I have never found a site that gives a response to the main criticism of the scanners. The critics hold the position (I believe originated by U of SF) that the x-rays are dangerous since they are concentrated just on the skin level (sorry don't know scientific term, epidermis maybe?). All articles that I have read seem to talk mainly about how the rays could have no harm since they are distributed throughout your entire body. I hope these people are wrong however since I would not like to go through the grope-fest again.

There have been quite a few responses to the skin concentration factor, suggesting that when looked at properly it is actually negligible. I am well aware of it. I don't have the time or interest at this moment because it is late, but when I have some free time I will look for some specific articles and post them here. I could have sworn I posted at least one or two that cover that in one of the TSA threads, but if not, then I did read it and I just did not post it.

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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There have been quite a few responses to the skin concentration factor, suggesting that when looked at properly it is actually negligible. I am well aware of it. I don't have the time or interest at this moment because it is late, but when I have some free time I will look for some specific articles and post them here. I could have sworn I posted at least one or two that cover that in one of the TSA threads, but if not, then I did read it and I just did not post it.

Thanks, I'd be interested to read the article your referring to. The links you posted on the first page do not seem to be the ones you're referring to.

Tangent: Is this what people would consider intrusive (link)? It is hard for me to tell whether there is censoring or not but I'm under the impression this is a normal x-ray picture since I have seen it on other sites.

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I think the main concern is these pictures being leaked, which has happened (about 40,000 are being stored in some Florida Courthouse or something), but also keep in mind that there are 2 types of scanners and they have different presentations of the scan.

Here is some relevant stuff I quickly found:

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2010/05/06/tsa-co-workers-battle-after-naked-body-scanner-reveals-agents-undersized-unit/

The x-ray backscatters have the most detailed images:

http://www.demconwatchblog.com/diary/4199/scanners-and-scanners

TSA Can Save Naked Body Scanner Images (Ignore the normal Fox News Hyperbole)

(They saved 40,000 of these images at a courthouse)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDwF3Pf_gzw

I had seen a video where it clearly showed the mans scrotum and penis as they flopped around during his walk through, and the sizes of both were clearly defined and so forth, and not blurred. I cannot seem to find it again however....I found it via a link by someone else a few days ago.

BODY SCANNER RADIATION:

http://news.discovery.com/human/travel-body-scanners-radiation.html

http://www.examiner.com/science-society-in-national/what-full-body-scanner-radiation-means-to-you

http://www.examiner.com/science-society-in-national/the-radiation-you-should-worry-about-and-the-radiation-you-can-fugetabout

An Official (Leaked, Cryptome is a leak site like Wikileaks) FDA Report on Airport Backscatter Machine Safety

http://cryptome.org/0002/fda-body-spy.pdf

Here is another leaked (from Cryptome) official report by the TSA & Dept. of Homeland Security

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B68pzZ_iwaTNNjRlYmIzZGQtYzM4Zi00YWU0LWE3NmYtODRmZTY1ZDJiYzU2&hl=en&authkey=CNrFr8QH

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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Here are two relevant leaked documents from a site that is like Wikileaks that I visit:

An Official FDA Report on Airport Backscatter Machine Safety:

http://cryptome.org/0002/fda-body-spy.pdf

An Official US Dept. of Homeland Security TSA Document on them:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B68pzZ_iwaTNNjRlYmIzZGQtYzM4Zi00YWU0LWE3NmYtODRmZTY1ZDJiYzU2&hl=en&authkey=CNrFr8QH

1.48 urem per dose eh? In my entire career on a nuclear powered submarine working in the engine room and doing watches that required walking into the "above the reactor compartment tunnel" to read gages and a "visual check" though leaded glass into the compartment itself, my dose was "< 1 urem." (although this says more about the Navy than the TSA's scanning machine, the point is that this is not a completely insignificant amount.)

Edited by th3ranger
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