Employment Contracts

[Hermes]

The "High End Sex Dolls Case" in this forum hinges on a non-compete/non-disclose contract. In the Culture forums under Intellectuals and the Media is a film for the Atlas Shrugged Competition about a man who destroys his invention, despite his having signed a contract.

I thought of Einstein, Hahn, and the other physicists of the Solvay Conferences faced with World War II. They enjoyed livelihoods courtesy of their governments. That was true moreso in Europe than here because our university system is different, but the essentials of the problem are not changed. Certainly, once war was declared -- first in Europe, then here -- there could be no mistaking the fact that the context had changed in a way not anticipated by the physicists. They now had the opportunity to deliver a class of weapons wholly different from anything previously known. Realize that even Jules Verne's story of a trip to the Moon began with a competition between armor and artillery, pretty mundane stuff. The Nautilus ran on electricity, but was made out of pressed paper, and suffered damage when struck by cannonballs. Atomic energy was truly a quantum leap. At Trinity, Oppenheimer wondered if the chain reaction would continue indefinitely.

True, warfare is destruction by definition and ultimately, every government exists to make war. Certainly, the physicists of the 20th century knew that, even if they did not know the works of Max Weber. (Weber elucidated the theory that government holds a monopoly on force. That was different than the theories of Montesquieu and Pufendorf, Locke and Hobbes, Aristotle and Plato. For Weber, the monopoly on force was the essential distinguishing characteristic, an assumption accepted now across the political spectrum.) They saw it in World War I - airplane, poison gas, ersatz food. So, it is easy for us here to look back and judge their willful ignorance.

But hindsight is always 20-20.

When an engineer signs with an employer, there can be no doubt that every day can bring new ideas, now owned by the company. It has been said that George Westinghouse could have had hundreds of patents in his own name, if he had followed Edison's example of demanding the rights to the inventions of his employees. This is an old problem. Today, no one with a college education can claim surprise.

And yet that is why we call them surprises.

[Hermes]

As a computer programmer and technical writer, I did this several times from 1978 - 2001. (Working as a security guard since 2002, the issue never came up.) Also, working as an employment recruiter, I signed non-compete contracts, promising not to go into that business within 50 or 100 miles within one year. Ironically, I signed the same sort of an agreement working as a forklift operator through a temporary agency.

When work was plentiful, I did turn down at least one job because the contract was too restrictive, demanding all work of any nature etc., etc., at their place or any other, etc., etc. Usually, I do not give such covenants much thought. Funny thing though, I wrote two books for Loompanics and the contract gave over all media rights. Though I was working as a programmer for others as well as for them, it never occured to me that that could be serious. A few years later, Kurt Saxon, Desert and other were producing videos. Loompanics asked me about producing a software diskette to go with The Code Book, but nothing came of that because in the early 1980s cross-compatibility just did not exist: I felt that the program listings in the book were sufficient. So, I never got to that quantum level of surprise, a new context that voids previous assumptions.

But I think that it depends mostly on who you are dealing with. Hewlett Packard was famous for their openness. Steve Wozniak had no problem borrowing equipment to work on his product. On the other hand, as the international editor for Coin World, I signed a non-compete agreement that was pretty mild in its language and draconian in its enforcement. They really did not want me to write anything for anyone else. At one point, one of the other Amos editors (not my publication), drew me aside after work. He said that as far as the company was concerned if you can go home after eight hours and write, you must have been holding back on the job.

I think that one reason that engineers (and others) find themselves in moral quagmires is that they never studied philosophy at any level. They just grew up with the values of their families, went to school, got hired, and eventually ran into something they were not prepared for. You do not need to have all the answers, but you should at least know what the questions are.

[Darylium]

Being a computer programmer I did indeed sign a contract containing a clause that says my intellectual work belongs to my employer. I think it goes without saying that whatever you create during work hours belongs to your employer, it doesn't matter if it is a physical or intellectual product. The principal remains the same.

I didn't read the sex dolls thread. But I have the suspicion that, in Atlas shrugged, the Twentieth Century Motor Company breached contract first, as I can't imagine Galt agreeing to such an absurd payment scheme.

It's funny that you mention the problem with engineers and philosophy. I took an ethics class when I studied Computer Science. The only thing I can remember was being disgusted with utilitarianism, while my teacher thought it was a great idea.

[Hermes]

... I think it goes without saying that whatever you create during work hours belongs to your employer, it doesn't matter if it is a physical or intellectual product. The principal remains the same.

So, you are working as a computer systems engineer and planning to open a ice cream store; say your son and daughter will run it at a resort during the May-Septmeber season. At 10:45 AM, you get an idea for the store. Who owns it? That night you wake up at 2:45 AM with an idea for the software. Who owns it?

The problem with IP is that it involves the content of your mind. How tightly can you control what you think about?

Physical property has perceptible boundaries. My land is not your land. My pencil is not your pencil. If you hire me to paint your living room, I do not fix the plumbing.

• You are working in software and come up with an idea for firmware or for hardware.
  
• There are seven layers from data to transport to presentation. Are they limitable?
  
• You are working for a conglomerate like ITT that has so many irons in the fire everything you think about could be a product or service they offer.
  

I think that there are answers and they are objectively knowable. They just are not easy and they depend on context.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Hermes

[Darylium]

So, you are working as a computer systems engineer and planning to open a ice cream store; say your son and daughter will run it at a resort during the May-Septmeber season. At 10:45 AM, you get an idea for the store. Who owns it? That night you wake up at 2:45 AM with an idea for the software. Who owns it?

My current contract explicitly ties IP with copyrightable material relevant to the products I work on. So the answer to your first question is simply 'I do' and the answer to the second is 'I do, unless I implement/document it'. I guess a lot depends on the exact terms of one's contract, though obviously that doesn't say anything about the nature of IP itself.

To be honest, I never thoroughly thought about the concept of IP, even though I am planning on starting my own (software) business some day. So I think I'll keep this thread monitored.

[intellectualammo]

I didn't read the sex dolls thread.

Said thread is here:

http://forum.objecti...showtopic=20904

in case anyone would like to read through it.

Edited January 24, 2011 by intellectualammo