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Congresswoman Giffords 14 others shot in AZ

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Terrible. What the hell is wrong with people?

Now watch certain outlets scramble to blame the Tea Party.

Taht started the second the news broke.

Most (retarded liberal) people think Sarah Palin is to blame.

I'm not a Palin fan but that is thoroughly insane.

Anyway, if following the story be careful to check sources. Tons of disinformation breaking. Gifford has been reported dead on numerous outlets but according to the hospital is still alive, and in surgery.

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A lot of people on another forum I sometimes post at are accusing the Tea Party left and right. It's dizzying.

Well you can share with these people blaming the Tea Party that the shooter's online profile lists his fave books as The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf.

For all we know this could be a liberal extremist assassination attempt of a conservative (she is) Democrat.

What happened to reprting of facts as you gather them rather than speculation?

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Leftists, probably a majority of them, actually, honest-to-God see "Tea Party folks" (whoever that is) as gun-toting, Bible-thumping, racist, homophobes just waiting to off the edge at any noble "liberal" or minority. So this line of propaganda is not an artificial strategy by leftist agitators, it is actually how the average left-socialist honestly sees the people who don't want to submit to their rule. Of course, their mouth pieces love it when these things happen, they revel in these events, and they like to package deal individualists with their right-socialist "rivals" (so as to blank out capitalism) as "adversaries" who are all equally to be silenced and painted with some type of "responsibility." I remember when that psychotic Nazi/whatever he was guy shot up the Holocaust Museum a while back, I switched it to MSNBC as the show "Hardball" was just coming on the air, and the very first words out of Chris Mathews' foaming, smirking mouth was "Terror from the right! Let's play hardball!" and the whole show was basically "You conservatives need to justify this! He's one of yours!" Just now I can see Pelosi giving some speech on the happenings, she looks to be enjoying it. The rightists, of course, will be all "it's important not to be partisan now, let's not be political!" and the left will be "oh yes, let's get political!" and break out the agitprop.

There's already a facebook page with his name and a picture of Glenn Beck and Fox News all over the page being brought out.

Edited by 2046
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Palin is obviously not responsible for this—the shooter is—but when she does things like posting a map with crosshairs across the districts of certain members of Congress and uses gun-related language like "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!", it may lead mentally unstable people like today's shooter to believe she's endorsing such actions. I would personally avoid language and imagery like that entirely. It's getting way too close to an actual threat for my taste.

I hope Giffords makes a full recovery. I disagree with her politically on more than one point, but she's far from the worst member of Congress and I wouldn't wish this sort of action on anyone.

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Read this; http://volokh.com/2011/01/08/what-were-jared-loughner%E2%80%99s-politics/

and this; http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-giffords-gunman-left-wing-quite-liberal/

Of course, the media will do all they can to blame the Tea Parties. Even the victims father blamed the Tea Parties. Such is the irrational knee jerk emotionalism that fuels the politics of the left.

Edited by Erik Christensen
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Leftists, probably a majority of them, actually, honest-to-God see "Tea Party folks" (whoever that is) as gun-toting, Bible-thumping, racist, homophobes just waiting to off the edge at any noble "liberal" or minority. So this line of propaganda is not an artificial strategy by leftist agitators, it is actually how the average left-socialist honestly sees the people who don't want to submit to their rule. Of course, their mouth pieces love it when these things happen, they revel in these events, and they like to package deal individualists with their right-socialist "rivals" (so as to blank out capitalism) as "adversaries" who are all equally to be silenced and painted with some type of "responsibility." I remember when that psychotic Nazi/whatever he was guy shot up the Holocaust Museum a while back, I switched it to MSNBC as the show "Hardball" was just coming on the air, and the very first words out of Chris Mathews' foaming, smirking mouth was "Terror from the right! Let's play hardball!" and the whole show was basically "You conservatives need to justify this! He's one of yours!" Just now I can see Pelosi giving some speech on the happenings, she looks to be enjoying it. The rightists, of course, will be all "it's important not to be partisan now, let's not be political!" and the left will be "oh yes, let's get political!" and break out the agitprop.

There's already a facebook page with his name and a picture of Glenn Beck and Fox News all over the page being brought out.

Well, I consider myself an average lefty (who is well versed in ayn rand's books - read them all more than once) and I don't jump to all those conclusions. But based on the 5 videos on the shooter's youtube account, he appears to be a strict constitutionalist, which, as you well know, the Right argues the Left are not. Couple that with the fact that Gifford voted for the health care bill and her office was the target of vandalism at the time. And she just won re-election in her district, taking away that spot from a tea party candidate. I don't think a Left wing extremist would target her, if that's what you're suggesting with your accusation of "propaganda".

By that assertion, do you claim it would be more accurate reporting to conclude the shooter was Left wing?

I mean. let's look what we have so far about the shooter:

1. Possibly strict constitutionalist (except of course his violating of human rights)

2. Seems to advocate a return to the gold standard suggesting he is in favor of pure Capitalism.

3. His target was a dem who voted for the health care bill and recently won re-election, taking away that district spot from her tea party opponent.

4. His reading list, while it includes, The Communist Manifesto, is varied and also includes a title by Ayn Rand - We The Living - as well as mein kampf and Siddhartha. So let's just say the reading material cancels out.

5. It is possibly him burning the american flag in a video he favorited on youtube. However, that is easily because of his disillusion and dissatisfaction with the nation not moving in his preferred direction of a "strict" application of the constitution, and not from any leftist agenda.

So the question should not be : Was he a tea party advocate? But, What made him go nuts and what did he shoot people over?

The answer to that seems to be because politicians weren't conforming to his strict interpretation of the constitution and that made him crazy. It was ideas, strict constitutionalist ideas that weren't being acted on fast enough for him, that drove him nuts enough to kill.

Based, on who he shot and his videos, are you going to suggest he shot people because the government was applying the principles of the constitution too well?

Edited by liberal
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Well, I consider myself an average lefty (who is well versed in ayn rand's books - read them all more than once) and I don't jump to all those conclusions. But based on the 5 videos on the shooter's youtube account, he appears to be a strict constitutionalist, which, as you well know, the Right argues the Left are not. Couple that with the fact that Gifford voted for the health care bill and her office was the target of vandalism at the time. And she just won re-election in her district, taking away that spot from a tea party candidate. I don't think a Left wing extremist would target her, if that's what you're suggesting with your accusation of "propaganda".

By that assertion, do you claim it would be more accurate reporting to conclude the shooter was Left wing?

I mean. let's look what we have so far about the shooter:

1. Possibly strict constitutionalist (except of course his violating of human rights)

2. Seems to advocate a return to the gold standard suggesting he is in favor of pure Capitalism.

3. His target was a dem who voted for the health care bill and recently won re-election, taking away that district spot from her tea party opponent.

4. His reading list, while it includes, The Communist Manifesto, is varied and also includes a title by Ayn Rand - We The Living - as well as mein kampf and Siddhartha. So let's just say the reading material cancels out.

5. It is possibly him burning the american flag in a video he favorited on youtube. However, that is easily because of his disillusion and dissatisfaction with the nation not moving in his preferred direction of a "strict" application of the constitution, and not from any leftist agenda.

From what I saw of his youtube account, his "thoughts" were thoroughly disoriented and schizophrenic. Not distincly right or left.

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From what I saw of his youtube account, his "thoughts" were thoroughly disoriented and schizophrenic. Not distincly right or left.

There certainly was plenty of that. But where he does make sense, he is clearly advocating a return to the gold standard and decrying a more flexible interpretation of the constitution.

Edited by liberal
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Let us say he is a strict constitutionalist or an Objectivist, or a communist, or a member of the Green Party? So what? The guy was psychotic. His political views are irrelevant. That is exactly the point of my earlier post. How does one go from "we should have gold and silver as legal tender" to this current situation? Not by the use of logic, which is clearly not your specialty. (LOL, the book choices "cancel each other out"?)

And by the way, his political views aren't even coherent. His sentences jump from topic to topic indicating his thought is disordered in some way.

Leftist scum are always looking to demonize opposition by guilt by association, package-dealing and smears. That is the point. I suggest your posts are perfect demonstrations of that.

Edited by 2046
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Someone who knew him well as of 2007 says he was quite left-wing, and obsessed with 2012 prophecy:

http://twitter.com/caitieparker

She also emphasized "then" and said she hadn't seen him since 2007. So i guess we'll have to wait for him to tell us what his current political ideas are. I put my money on a strict constitutionalist and advocate of pure capitalism. Not that you're all like that but I do think when you accept wrong ideas based on wrong premises they eventually will fail. And when they fail it can push you toward behaviors you wouldn't engage in had you been in possession of other ideas. That kid should have reread Siddhartha....it obviously didn't sink in....

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Really? Do you base that on his target or the videos of his own words? Thank you.
No, I was commenting on what it sounds like from what I read in this thread: people calling him left-wing, his advocacy of the gold standard, and the other things. They sound consistent with things that anarchist libertarian commies say. Obviously, I don't have an opinion on whether this is true (nor do I have any intention of finding out). I'm glad Arizona has the death penalty. Edited by softwareNerd
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This may just be a coincidence but a couple days ago someone from her district named BoyBlue posted a rant about Giffords on Daily Kos, because she voted against Nancy Pelosi. The headline: "My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!"

Daily Kos has since taken the post down. Here's a Google Cache of the page, along with the comments.

Update: It appears to be just a coincidence - further down in the comments, the user posts his email address as [email protected]

Edited by brian0918
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Here is a very frequent update page on the status of both the crime as well as the condition of the wounded, this way you can see the entire progression of related events before and after:

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/democratic-congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-along-with-others-updates

Here is the shooters youtube page:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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I really don't see how this guys political views MEAN ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE here. Instead of showing concern for those that were injured or killed, instead we are arguing about what political views this obviously unstable person may have had. What the hell?

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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I think its a little premature to be discussing such mattes when the news media can't even seem to agree on how many people were shot, and wasn't even able to make up their minds on if the Congresswoman was dead or not until not all that long ago. Regardless of intention it will result in more speculation than fact right now. While we can certainly get some facts straight, such as from his internet profiles and youtube, the big picture will be scrambled for a little while still.

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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Ok now I am not even able to figure out if she is dead or not. I keep seeing conflicting stuff even from the MSM.

EDIT: Apparently she is alive and in critical condition. As far as wounded I have seen reports anywhere from 12 to 19 from news sites. Most common seems to be between 13 and 16.

EDIT:

"Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot point blank in the head today, faces a prolonged recovery period, reports MSNBC. Giffords, the victim of a traumatic brain injury, suffered a temple-to-temple wound which could possibly leave her with severe cognitive problems or paralysis. However, Giffords' surgeon has expressed optimism about her recovery. MSNBC notes that other victims of traumatic brain injury have recovered enough to go back to work. For example, ABC news anchor Bob Woodruff has recovered enough to return to work after the brain injury he suffered in 2006 in Iraq. Also, President Ronald Reagan's press secretary, James Brady, regained many of his former functions after he was shot in the head during the 1981 attempt on President Ronald Reagan's life."

http://calorielab.com/labnotes/20110108/arizona-rep-gabrielle-giffords-condition-shot-head/

For anyone wondering what the fuss is with Sarah Palin,she had this posted on her website:

http://imgur.com/Uw4RS

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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