Hank Rearden Syndrome

[d'Anconia]

I shiver at every thought of a girl I like in just a slightly sexual context.

It's as if she's somehow too "pure" for anything but a pedestal with protective glass (not literaly ofcourse). It's doesn't have anything to do with religion as I was always an atheist raised in an atheist family. What I think it might stem from is that everyone seems to be portraying it as mindless fun and that's just seems to be too animalistic/hedonistic for a person I admire and value so much.

I haven't really run in to any problems holding such a view but I can see how it might be a problem later on.

So I would really appreciate if you could dismantle this psychological bomb so to speak...

Thank you!

[bluecherry]

Here's a question: "she's somehow too "pure"" She's pure what? And what by this standard is impure? Why do you care about being pure or impure of this thing? Something could be pure evil, that's pure, but not in a way that is any kind of desirable.

As for, "What I think it might stem from is that everyone seems to be portraying it as mindless fun . . ." That's THEIR perspective, their treatment of it. That doesn't mean they're correct or have the market cornered on perspectives on sex necessarily. Do you accept this view of sex? If so, why do you think they're right necessarily?

[softwareNerd]

What I think it might stem from is that everyone seems to be portraying it as mindless fun and that's just seems to be too animalistic/hedonistic for a person I admire and value so much.

That sounds about right. It is the idea that sex is somehow "lower". People often portray it that way. Philosophically, you need to understand that this is false. If you want to go to a great restaurant with her, or if you want to enjoy a movie with her, or if you want to go on a vacation together, is that "animal/hedonistic"? Only if enjoyment is "animalistic/hedonistic" .. and in that sense there would be nothing wrong with it. No, that's not quite precise. Actually, it is what we live for. What is the point living if we aren't going to get pleasure from life? That's the philosophical reasoning... I'm not sure how one would go about changing one's automated evaluations / psychology on the issue.

[Element]

I have suffered from the same problem and have realized that I over invest emotionally/intellectually in women I know. The main trick is to try and not think about them (I hope I don't need to explicate anymore on that point). Idealizing people in anyway is dangerous, but in particular it is dangerous when you do it with women because of the image they put out, or the fantasies you have, or a context you might give to their sexual activity that you can not actually verify. A lot of anxiety that I would feel (in regaurds to their sex lives) would be the same anxiety I would have felt if I was actively pursuing the girl even though I rarely actually was. The point was I was actually mad because it was not me.

Of course that is just my expierence. I mean I am basically saying you might be jealous because you develop delusions and/or are easily seduced by women naturally. It is something to think about, and I am sorry if it is not true.

[nanite1018]

To the OP, I was (and in a way still am) in the same position. I too was a secular person ever since I was young. I love(d) science and reason, and hate(d) irrationality. I bought into the idea that reason and emotion are opposed, that I was a being split in two: a Man, and an Animal. The Man was the reasoner, the scientist, etc. The Animal was my emotions, sex, even physical activity like sports or exercise (or even being outside and enjoying it in any way). And so, ever since I was in elementary school, all the way up until my senior year of high school (I loosened up a bit my sophomore and junior years but really didn't shake it in any meaningful way until senior year), I suppressed laughter or smiles, I stamped down any sexual urges, intentionally avoided interacting with anyone outside of school, intellectualized almost all of my activities so they had little emotional impact, etc. I also became very overweight, but suppressed even my shame of that as it too would be a concession to the idea that my body mattered, which to me was a sin against reason.

Well, in terms of my conscious statements, I believe none of that crap now. And I've made some progress in various areas. For example now I laugh and joke and smile. I don't intentionally stamp down my emotions. I don't suppress sexual feelings and shun them as if they're dirty. I've even started eating a lot better and have lost 20 pounds in less than thirty days. However, the after effects still linger. Even though I don't try to be, I still project the image that I am a brain in a jar. I don't have strong emotions, they tend to be more superficial. I find it hard to be motivated to do things (as my ability to value things, and feel that, is limited at this point from years of repression. My emotions about sex are messed up too, as a direct result.

However, I have made improvements, and continue to do so. How? By understanding that sex isn't (or doesn't have to be) "lower", it can be great. That I am not a Man and an Animal, I am a Man (and men are also animals). I have emotions, and reason, and they can and should work together to make my life better, rather than at cross purposes. I am a union of mind and body, and the needs of both must be met (though I still haven't been able to bring myself to exercise, that one is difficult for me). It is both good and bad to here that someone has had a similar experience as me- a secular type person who has problems with sex because it's too "animalistic" or "impure". Good, because I'm not alone in that, bad, because that means there are others that are also in a bad way.

Here's hoping we both get our s*** straight.

Edited March 21, 2011 by nanite1018

[d'Anconia]

Sorry that I didn't reply sooner... I didn't have much to say becouse it all makes logical sense but I just have some automatic emotional response.

@nanite1018

Thanks for sharing that! And I wish you luck with your efforts

@Element

Hm... I don't think we have the same problem here.

@softwareNerd

That makes perfect sense... I guess I just have to beat into my head somehow.

@bluecherry

Yeah, pure might not be the best word. I meant something along the lines of: not to be touched as that would somehow degrade her... Well that doesn't really make any sense does it?

[bluecherry]

From the sounds of things here, this is a mind/body dichotomy problem. She's "pure" mind, "touching" her would "degrade" her by "tainting" her with that which is bodily. You seem like you may believe it is an either or thing where you either use your mind OR you use your body, each being mutually exclusive. You're either mindless or bodiless. Or as Galt puts it in his speech, a zombie or a ghost. It may be true that our particular type of mind is the defining/distinguishing element of being human, but you're not either a "pure" floating mind of a human OR a mindless "lower" animal - you're a human AND an animal. Human is a specific type of animal. [/Captain Obvious] The animal part is not the distinguishing unique element of us, but a concept is more than just that distinguishing element, it includes all of the elements of a thing. Humans are no less about body than they are about mind by nature. Contradictions cannot exist, there's no way we could actually be contradictory by nature where we had built in conflict in our nature with the mind and the body duking it out. The two elements do not compete, they cooperate. They each need each other, or else you'd be the zombie or the ghost, each of them notably dead. That's actually part of what makes sex so great, it's capacity for being the top expression and experience of the joy and value between people as a united whole creature, both mind and body.

You do not bring down somebody you admire when you have consensual sex with them, quite the opposite. Their mind doesn't cease to exist during sex. Trying to have sex with a living human being without the mind can't be done, the other person's mind can only be evaded through abstraction and ignoring. Only necrophilia can actually achieve sex with a human body alone without respect to the mind in the body. For somebody who doesn't evade and isn't into necrophilia, it says a lot about your assessment of their mind too that you would want to have sex with somebody particular. Billions of schmoes in the world, plenty of them willing if asked, but with your finite resources, you want THIS person to be who you spend them on, to be who you will give all this pleasure to, that it is THEM that you really want it from likewise. Your desire and willingness in such a case to have sex with such a person is one of the highest compliments you can pay them and you're going through with that consensual sex is one of the greatest rewards you can give them and likewise they to you.

[KevinD]

I shiver at every thought of a girl I like in just a slightly sexual context.

How do you feel (sexually) about women you can't stand?

[Maximus]

Loosen up, enjoy life, have sex, have a drink. None of these things degrade anything. Don't model yourself after abstract characters in a novel.