Facebook: Why use it? Why not? etc.

[Eiuol]

FB does not have an impact on anyone. What has an impact is how people choose to use FB, and how people choose to respond to what they see others do.

I think you missed one point I was making: that it promotes certain habits. Using Facebook I think promotes bad habits, unless you happen to use it in a way as not intended. I'm not suggesting people do not have volitional control over choosing to use Facebook at all, but the process of using it leads to certain ways of thinking in order to use it. The nature of the information systems in general make it so there is a strong impact on *how* you think because of habits you need to get into. If your only mode of communication were Twitter, you'd be thinking in terms of 140 characters. To use Facebook, you'd think in terms of status updates, likes, and various other features whenever you use it. And since it's so popular, MANY people get into those habits. Since there are only certain ways to use a tool, and you need to think in order to use the tool at all, your mind starts to automatize certain modes of thinking in order to use that tool at all.

Just like political systems promote certain habits, information systems do, too. A political system isn't a deterministic force, yet non-capitalistic systems are almost always in some way egalitarian based, leading to people habitually thinking in altruistic or second-handed ways.

Short ideas are not inherently bad. What's bad is when that becomes commonplace and more intellectual thinking is rare. Social networking makes simple thought more common because that's what it's built for.

Really, the big thing is depersonalization of communication. It's not even one-on-one. A person posts something to a general audience, you respond. It's not really ever something directed at you personally unless you do private messages or instant messaging. Which has been around for a long time already anyway. The purpose is to communicate with friends, but all of it is mostly talking to yourself as far as I'm concerned.

To clarify, I never used Facebook really. I was only speaking about my IM use, and even then, I still mostly wrote with proper grammar and complete sentences, although I didn't put forth as much effort.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Eiuol

[softwareNerd]

For anyone who has not registered and tried FB for at least a few months, I suggest doing so by providing a minimum amount of personal info (they don't really need much, and you can use a new throw-away email address). Use their privacy controls to limit your visibility to "friends". Then friend some people of your choice: family, coworkers, classmates, fellow gamers, fellow Objectivists...whatever makes sense for you... whoever you think you'd be interested in keeping slightly more in touch with. Then, after using it for a couple of months, make an experience-based decision whether it works for you. Even is FB is corrupting the thinking habits of the whole world, it may have something of value for you. If not -- or if you find that you do not want to be part of it, after actually giving it a chance, removing stuff and deactivating your account forever is pretty straightforward.

Edited April 20, 2011 by softwareNerd

[d'Anconia]

I found an old acquaintance that moved to America on facebook... I don't think I would have without it.

[RationalBiker]

I think you missed one point I was making: that it promotes certain habits.

I didn't miss it, I just don't agree with it.

If your only mode of communication were Twitter, you'd be thinking in terms of 140 characters.

But it isn't, even if I were to agree that were true. I'm not saying there are not some people as idiotic as you are making them out to be, but I'm willing to bet that when many people switch from writing on Facebook or Twitter to writing their term papers or police reports, they are not writing as if they were posting Status Updates and Likes. In at least one instance, my son, I know this to be true. If a given person's only modes of communication were Facebook or Twitter, there is likely a problem with that person that precedes their choice of communication mediums. If they are being dumbed down, it is more likely because of their education or parenting, not because they use Facebook or Twitter.

What I still see in your posting is basically; Facebook is bad because it doesn't serve my purposes.

For instance;

Really, the big thing is depersonalization of communication. It's not even one-on-one.

So? Are you saying that people who use Facebook no longer communicate one to one in other modes of communication? I know that is false. I see nothing wrong with telling a bunch of my friends something about my life or something about something I'm doing. I don't see how that would be any better if I made 20 phone calls to tell them all the same thing. However, if you prefer all of your conversations to be one to one, that is your prerogative but it is wrong to assume that there is anything wrong with communicating with more than one person at a time, that it necessarily devalues communication.

The purpose is to communicate with friends, but all of it is mostly talking to yourself as far as I'm concerned.

Again, you speak for yourself. The purpose is to communicate with friends and you actually do communicate with friends through Facebook so it works, at least that has been my experience since I actually use it. If you are talking to yourself on Facebook, you need to add some friends to your Friends List. I'm joking of course, but is serves the point.

[ScarlettCatherwood]

It is a medium used as a main/big method of communication for people, and that medium does not usually involve much more than several sentences. I suppose you could at times use it for lengthier discussions, but that is far from the norm and is not something promoted.

The key factor here is how you would use it. The way other people use it should really be of no singificance to you. You suppose you could use it for lengthier dicussions? Then do so. I do. A very good friend of mine joined the Marines a few months ago, and we have not stopped having lengthy discussions, mostly about philosophy and politics, through personal messaging on Facebook. In fact, it's our main form of communication with each other. And yes, we use proper puncuation, capitalization, spelling, and grammar, as we have since we were in grade school.

My experiences with it have shown me that people really don't change their way of thinking much from using it. People who have always written in complete sentences with proper grammar in any manner of writing (including texting), like my friend and myself, continue to do so on Facebook. People who have always shortened things (u, 2, r, etc.), even in regular writing, continue to do so on Facebook.

To find out music tastes, they just have to look at your profile. Same with books, movies, and some inane things that make you laugh, tv you watched as a kid...

For the record, all of this is completely optional. Not only do you not have to share this with people, you don't have to put it on there at all.

Really, the big thing is depersonalization of communication. It's not even one-on-one.

As mentioned above, it can most certainly be used for one-on-one communication. It can even be used strictly in this manner. If you don't post a status, it can't be shared with anyone, can it?

Of course, face-to-face is a different matter altogether, but I suppose that's not what you meant as you would probably be denouncing the telephone and e-mail as well.

As for getting angry when someone assumes you use Facebook, I can understand that. But the reason they assume that is because of the number of people that do use it. They're not saying that you should just because everyone else does, just that they thought you did because of it's mass popularity. However, if they are saying that, isn't it a good opportunity to start a conversation about the fallacy of the appeal to popularity, which, by the way, includes anti-conformists who refuse to do things because of it's popularity? And are much more infuriating, in my opinion.

The bottom line is if you don't like Facebook, don't use it.

[Sirius1]

just thought of 2 more basic uses for Facebook:

-- as a business card when stripped of everything else

-- as an identity placeholder to reduce the possibility of being impersonated

[Eiuol]

But it isn't, even if I were to agree that were true. I'm not saying there are not some people as idiotic as you are making them out to be, but I'm willing to bet that when many people switch from writing on Facebook or Twitter to writing their term papers or police reports, they are not writing as if they were posting Status Updates and Likes.

I'm not suggesting that people would write as thought they were posting Status Updates and all that, but rather, social networking in general I think simplifies the thinking process negatively when used as intended. When not useed as intended, I think there are better ways to find what you need to perform necessary functions. I opt for not using Facebook at all, even though I *could*, because I think it at best only negatively affects intellectual progress and innovation. As a tool, it provides nothing on the level of telephone, where even though some people used it unproductively, the telephone allowed for the possibility to communicate in ways that were literally impossible years before. Not only that, other technological developments in communications were built upon ideas as a result of the telephone. We can say that Facebook is just one of many products stemming out of the development of the Internet, and leave it at that. However, I truly do not think it is possible to develop something useful out of Facebook. The further developments that would come are even more ways of encouraging simpler thought. I should do a survey of some sort in attempt to validate my suspicions that as a *result* of Facebook, a person has in some manner reduced the amount of time thinking and reasoning. As well as to figure out if it really does have an "equalizing" effect on the friendships people have.

Ideally, what I'd like to see is something that encourages intellectual thought. Even if I am wrong on the negative role Facebook has, I doubt anyone would agree that it actively promotes activities like reading books or thinking about topics that require a lot of thought.

"The way other people use it should really be of no singificance to you."

Look, a typo, all the evidence I need of dumbing down! (Only kidding =] )

A very good friend of mine joined the Marines a few months ago, and we have not stopped having lengthy discussions, mostly about philosophy and politics, through personal messaging on Facebook.

Is there a reason you opt for using Facebook as opposed to email?

Edited April 22, 2011 by Eiuol

[RationalBiker]

Eulol,

I appreciate your concern even if I disagree. I'll just say this, sometimes people sit around a grill, drink a beer, and NOT discuss anything deep or intellectual. If I want deep and intellectual I'll come here. Not all conversations or exchanges of information need be deep, involved intellectual conversations. If that is what you want Facebook wouldn't be your best tool, but be clear that it CAN be used that way as designed if you have other willing participants. One need never post a wall status to use the chat feature or private message feature where one can indulge themselves all day long waxing philosophic.

[ScarlettCatherwood]

Is there a reason you opt for using Facebook as opposed to email?

While I check my e-mail everyday, I don't think he's ever checked his.

This is one of the reasons I like using Facebook. I have several forms of communication (e-mail, instant message, status update) available to me in one location. I can switch from to the other with ease. And the whole messaging set up makes it faster and easier to reply than standard e-mail.

Eiuol, I don't remember if you said you'd used it or not, but even if you have you might try creating an account just as a test. See if you like the convenience of it, or if the whole thing still bothers you. I'd alslo like to note that the quality of your friends on Facebook has a great impact on the quality of your experience.

[RationalBiker]

Why is it that you had a problem using complete sentences, proper grammar and proper punctuation on FB and I have never had that problem.

I have to (jokingly) point out that there must be a problem with this forum software because I failed to properly punctuate the above question.

[Tyco]

Not having a Facebook account in 2011 is a bit like not having an email account in 1999. You don't need one but it's hardly some passing fad.

[d'Anconia]

Funny how the telegrapth didn't ruin our grammer.

[Sirius1]

I reconnected with my first real girlfriend after 12 years. We had drifted apart when I joined the military and she moved overseas. We're now happily married. Facebook made it possible.