aaa Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 i've come to the point where i feel very few people even closely resemble dagney or roark or rearden. I would say I've met TWO who you could tell had the purpose convictions ect. Where the hell ARE these people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volco Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 you want someone to reply in Galt's Gulch , but the real question is, do you believe in demi-Gods or do you consider that Rand used the Greek concept as a metaphor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volco Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, were all average to deficient in many aspects of their lives during much of their lives, and now are considered.. well... the first two are popularly considered just that, demi gods. what is exactly what you yearn to see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th3ranger Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Oh, they're out there. They are just to busy to make themselves known. Does the media have to be interested in you to be considered a great and amazing sucess? Or do your achievements qualify you only? I kinda always thought it was the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Oh, they're out there. They are just to busy to make themselves known. Does the media have to be interested in you to be considered a great and amazing sucess? Or do your achievements qualify you only? I kinda always thought it was the latter. yeah that's what i was thinking too; especially that the really famous people of this world are jokes i.e. bill gates/ect. and the people who are the REAL movers of the world are people who others do everything in their power to steal from and thus can never rise or realize their fame/fortune. EC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomer Ravid Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 From my Facebook inspirations: Aristotle, Newton, Thomas Jefferson, Ramanujan, Ayn Rand, Richard Feynman, Mike Mentzer (yes, I know he hasn't had a deep understanding of Objectivist epistemology, but I really tend to like the concept of a greatly educated bodybuilder; this combination of mind and body clearly does remind me of Radian heroes), Steve Jobs. All these were innovative geniuses, and---to different extents and in different ways---had an impressive biography and held generally positive premises. volco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 If you think Bill Gates is a joke I suggest you start to re-evaluate people. His achievements are tremendous and the value he has created is mind-boggling. There is no way his flaws could ever reduce him to a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) I think if you read the Objectivist corpus critically Miss Rand implies most men, if not all, have the capability to achieve this status if they a) choose to think and follow reason in every aspect of their life, and as a corollary choose to adopt a rational philosophy. For example, when Dagny is in Atlantis and she is sitting with Galt, Francisco, and Ragnar at Hugh Akston's home they are all described as ordinary men while all present are also clearly exceptional hero's. Edited November 1, 2011 by EC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 oh, i realized one: jared fogle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 oh, i realized one: jared fogle Level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Two words: John Allison. An incredibly successful former CEO of BB&T bank, who is also an explicit Objectivist. His bank refused to participate in eminent domain loans and negative amortization mortgages, specifically referencing the Objectivist principles of private property and the trader principle. He gives lectures on business philosophy based on Rand's work. Here he is defending profits on John Stossel's show; his response to a question about making 7 million dollars in the previous year was, "Well, actually John, I think I earned it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas- Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) @Dante Is that the banker who made all of his workers read Atlas Shrugged? Edited November 3, 2011 by Atlas- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 All of his executives, yes; not every single employee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th3ranger Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Single time you see a major industrial achievement, every single time, I can promise you there is at least one unknown (to you at least) "titan" behind it. Some businesses get in the way more than others; some dilute their geniuses in "design committees". But they are out there. If they were stolen from like you say, "aaa," you wouldn't be able to buy any of the products that you like that seem better than their competitors. They are more than likely more interested in making money than calling up the media and saying "Hey! Could you let everyone know I exist?!?" The celebrities you are aware of are known to you, because they want to be known, and desire publicity. If you have a job where this doesn't matter, like for example, 99% of all the other occupations that exist, you aren't likely to care that you aren't on the cover of "Life" magazine, that pile of tripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 edgar allen poe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volco Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 poe, really! why not lovercraft! How about what the leet stranger said. For example (out of many) just open google earth, go to a major city and look at the port. The sheer size and geometry of the docks (use the ruler to compare a jersey or busan dock with central park), the immense complexity that allows the infrastructure of the World to keep moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 "Dante Is that the banker who made all of his workers read Atlas Shrugged?" I am as much offended by that as I would be if an employer made me read the Book of Mormon or the Koran. In theory, of course, an employee who didn't want to be propagandized could work elsewhere, but the reality is that jobs are not always easy to come by, and most people are forced to do what their employer wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream_weaver Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 "Dante Is that the banker who made all of his workers read Atlas Shrugged?" I am as much offended by that as I would be if an employer made me read the Book of Mormon or the Koran. In theory, of course, an employee who didn't want to be propagandized could work elsewhere, but the reality is that jobs are not always easy to come by, and most people are forced to do what their employer wants. You can't choose to start your own business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volco Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Avila, that's ridiculous, I know a manager who made everyone read Scott Adam's book. It's not that unusual and it's generally more optional than "diversity exercise" day, etc. I believe he made his executives read AS, not forced them to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I am as much offended by that as I would be if an employer made me read the Book of Mormon or the Koran. In theory, of course, an employee who didn't want to be propagandized could work elsewhere, but the reality is that jobs are not always easy to come by, and most people are forced to do what their employer wants. It's well known as the source of his business philosophy. Would you be offended if a Mormon institution required you to read the Book of Mormon to be an upper level manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 "I believe he made his executives read AS, not forced them to." And the difference is.......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 if they don't want to read it they don't have to work for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaa Posted November 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 poe, really! why not lovercraft! How about what the leet stranger said. For example (out of many) just open google earth, go to a major city and look at the port. The sheer size and geometry of the docks (use the ruler to compare a jersey or busan dock with central park), the immense complexity that allows the infrastructure of the World to keep moving. well, my suggestion of poe is based somewhat on the fact that during his time he was despised, unpopular, and unknown (i think.). Wouldn't this serve as somewhat of a parallel between, say, how society thinks Rearden is a complete you-know-what, and what he actually is? Poe is POSSIBLY credited for even creating the detective novel... I think, reading poe, kind of speaks for itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 "if they don't want to read it they don't have to work for him." That's such a pat answer, but it completely ignores reality. A person who has, perhaps, a family to support and bills to pay is NOT necessarily in a position to walk away from an employer who makes certain demands. It makes for a nice theory, but it does help to look at reality. Someone else suggested, "he can start his own company". Really?! Just like that? Have the people making these breezy recommendations actually done just that? And did they do that when they were married with kids. with bills to pay? I'm not saying it can't be done -- I'm saying that it can't always be done, and in reality is seldom done. It's easy to say those things when you're in high school or college and are living on someone else's dime. Dante had a good point about the Mormons, but in response I would say that a person's religious affiliation within a religious institution is obviously of prime importance. Of course a person in the Mormon hierarchy would be expected to be familiar with the Book of Mormon -- that would probably be assumed, not forced. But I just don't like the idea of a businessman forcing his employees to read his idea of good fiction. I don't have a problem with him suggesting to his employees that they read Ayn Rand, as her fiction was important to him and influential to his business ethic, but to require it? If they are doing their jobs well and are productive, then their particular preferences in fictional novels ought to be of no concern to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 What, just like the employer forces you to actually do work for him? You are following the same logic that has people saying you are "forced" to buy products, etc. A job is a voluntary transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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