Islamic Bitcoin Bank, IBB to promote Sharia

[Boris Rarden]

This is a cross post from here:

https://bitcointalk....p?topic=75591.0

Hello Bitcoiners,

I see that people invest in IBB, which stands for Islamic Bitcoin Bank. I think it is the most hypocritical use of bitcoin. Allow me to explain.

Islam, just as any religion (Christianity or Judaism) it is evil at the core of its philosophy. However, Islam is the religion today that takes itself into the government of Iran, which puts guns in the hands of these religious people. If they didn't have guns, their philosophy will only hurt themselves, since it is irrational and has no semblance to reality (example: independence of thinking is bad, sex is bad, etc). So as a person protecting freedom, I'm voting for a war against Iran, to dissolve the religious government.

Bitcoiners talk a lot of free enterprise and freedom, and unrestrained capitalism. Iran, all the Muslim countries that are sympathetic to Iran, are not for free enterprise. They are today what Soviet Union was before it crashed.

Islam is not the only religion that took itself into the government. The most recent example is Shinto religion in Japan. After USA bombed Japan and it capitulated, USA told Japan that they can continue with Shinto, as long as it is separate of government.

I'd hate to see those who are fighting for freedom to be misinformed about the real cost of religion to this civilization. To find out more information about it and form your own opinion about this topic I recommend the following:

Milton Friedman's series on Capitalism:

http://www.freetochoose.tv/

Interview with Reza Khalili, an ex-CIA spy (Iranian double agent)

http://www.theobject...eza-kahlili.asp

“Just War Theory” vs. American Self-Defense

http://www.theobject...-war-theory.asp

Richard Dawkins -- anything

Ayn-Rand -- Capitalism the Unknown Ideal

http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0451147952

I know what you are going to say, that whole purpose of bitcoin is to let people do with it whatever they want. That is true, I'm just giving you information that you may not seen. There is a lot of propaganda on both sides of the issue, and the only way to know who is right is to check your basic premises (knowledge).

If you are supporting Palestine, and that is your biggest motivation, here is a debate about it:

http://www.debate.or...tacking-gaza/2/

Our biggest problem today is not the absence of laissez-faire capitalism in USA and the world. Govt controls, and taxes is a symptom of the root sickness which is wrong assumptions about philosophy. It is a lot of work to untangle the mess we are in today, but if you see a hungry child in Africa or Gazza, or in a poor area of USA, and you want to help -- you have to understand the cause of the problem, to solve it. It is like if you find a bug in your code, you want to understand it, rather than adding a special case "if" at the point where it crashes.

I hope that bitcoin will not be used to promote religion, or socialism, or altruism. If you think I'm crazy for saying that, please make sure that you are familiar with the links I posted.

I know that there people who are very strongly subscribe to the Islamic dogma, and who get just as strongly offeneded if they hear anything against it. I'm sorry to offend you, but this is the truth.

Boris

Reactions are all negative, as you can see in the thread. Some guy by nickname Variable said this:

Dude, IBB gives interest free loans. Investing in it has nothing to do with your beliefs or ideals, its all about rates of return and available funding. Bitcoin is all about free market capitalism and if IBB wants a religious religious correlation to be draw between their name and a set of ideals, who cares. Its all about bringing home the bacon.

To which I have replied this:

There is logic in your argument, however, you are missing one thing - restriction of human rights under Sharia.

IBB's money comes from Islamic religion and Sharia -- they promote it openly. Sharia in turn, coupled with government protection, is a totalitarian regime that puts a gun to people's head to force them to do certain things. So the product of their labor is not an output of a free market. And therefore, your argument does not apply.

To illustrate this point more dramatically imagine that I trick people to come to an island for a big opportunity. Once they arrive they find out that there is a factory that makes iPhones. I don't let them leave the island and I shoot anyone who tries to escape. I have food and shelter for them, but I will not pay them anything, and they are forced to work for me as slaves. Suppose food and shelter for these people costs me $1/day, while their labor in a free world would actually cost $100/day. The cost to make an iPhone would be $10 for me, while perhaps the cost to make an iPhone in regular conditions is 10 times as much. Of course I will be able to make a huge profit on those iPhones, so big that I will be able to give attractive loans. I will also use excess money to create a philosophy in which the slaves will not think of themselves as slaves, but more as those fighting for a higher cause -- a religion called Xyz, that demands 1 year of forced labor in order to achieve 1 year of bliss after death. People who will call me a liar I will label as confused souls that need forced guidance. I will advertise this philosophy as a new solace to happiness.

This example is not as far fetched as you might think. You can watch the movie "East-West" about a call to expat Russians to return to Soviet Union, under Stalin. They couldn't leave Russia afterwards, and were forced to work at a tenth of their income they would have in Western Europe, as well as, to live at one tenth the standard of life.

This kind of thing happens all over the place, in history, and even today. Forced-labour of people who are in jail (because they are against the government), cheap labor in China because of Govt import/export taxes and emmigration restrictions (Red China), tricking girls into prostitution (Zwi Migdal), and your plane old slavery. In fact, just by going through history, we can find the same kind of conflicts that exist today.

It is true that you can leave Iran today, although I imagine the process is not simple. But by the time you grow up to be an adult to make such a decision, you have already been taught about the world through the lens of Islam and Sharia. Even if you wanted to have an independent opinion during your childhood or teens, you couldn't have -- just try to say openly there something against Islam. You would be be torn to pieces.

The same was happening in Russia. People were afraid to say something in their kitchen that is against the government. The walls had ears. Also, when there was a parade, everyone had to come out -- if you don't, people will report you. After Stalin was dead, people finally started to speak, still very slowly.

In order to have a free market, people must be free to do for work whatever they want, and where they want. If they want to create a travel agency for American girls in mini-skirts to visit Tehran, they should be free to do so. And citizens of Tehran should be free to look at those girls, at the risk of loosing some friends (but not their heads).

This point of view comes naturally if you understand the source of human rights. Why do I think I have a right to start such a travel agency ? The answer is here:

http://www.theobject...eory-rights.asp

Anyways, I wasn't able to get through to them.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Boris Rarden

[softwareNerd]

So, the scam artists behind bit-coin have figured out there one more political/religious sales pitch they can use, against a new target audience.