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Vote for The Incredibles!

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http://www.pcavote.com/voting/film/f01.shtml

The Incredibles is up against:

-Farenheit 9/11 (ugh)

-Spiderman 2 (yay for a movie that blatantly praises altruism and NOT being an individual)

-Eternal Sunshine (romance movie about a man who deliberately gets all memories of his ex girlfriend erased out of his mind and his quest to hold on to some scrap of her before the end implicates that fate always brings people together again in the end...boring tripe)

-Shrek 2 (haven't seen it...liked the first one)

I think The Incredibles is the clear winner, and if you do too...make your voice heard.

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How does Spiderman 2 praise altruism? For a good portion of the movie he is torn between wanting to help society and wanting to live his own life, so he chooses to live his own life. Later, he decides that he can have both. I see nothing at all wrong with this. Individualism does not rule out helping others.

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The Incredibles is up against:

...

-Eternal Sunshine (romance movie about a man who deliberately gets all memories of his ex girlfriend erased out of his mind and his quest to hold on to some scrap of her before the end implicates that fate always brings people together again in the end...boring tripe)

...

!

I really liked that movie. I don't consider a man fighting for the woman he loves--especially as emotionally and suspensefully as they presented it in that movie--to be boring or "tripe." I haven't seen The Incredibles or Spiderman 2, which I also think I'll like, but I know Eternal Sunshine was awesome!

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http://www.pcavote.com/voting/film/f01.shtml

The Incredibles is up against:

-Farenheit 9/11 (ugh)

-Spiderman 2 (yay for a movie that blatantly praises altruism and NOT being an individual)

-Eternal Sunshine (romance movie about a man who deliberately gets all memories of his ex girlfriend erased out of his mind and his quest to hold on to some scrap of her before the end implicates that fate always brings people together again in the end...boring tripe)

-Shrek 2 (haven't seen it...liked the first one)

I think The Incredibles is the clear winner, and if you do too...make your voice heard.

Spiderman 2 was a good movie aestheically. If you ignore the aunt's horribly evil speech about heros sacrificing themselves, the movie was pretty good philisophically too. And, not to mention that one of the co-creators of the franchise was an Objectivist.

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Spiderman 2 was a good movie aestheically. If you ignore the aunt's horribly evil speech about heros sacrificing themselves, the movie was pretty good philisophically too. And, not to mention that one of the co-creators of the franchise was an Objectivist.

One of the co-creators of Spiderman the comic book, or the movies?

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!

I really liked that movie [Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind].  I don't consider a man fighting for the woman he loves--especially as emotionally and suspensefully as they presented it in that movie--to be boring or "tripe."  I haven't seen The Incredibles or Spiderman 2, which I also think I'll like, but I know Eternal Sunshine was awesome!

I agree 100 percent. This has become one of my recent favorites.

I do not think this movie had anything to do with fate. Instead, I saw the ending as blow against determinism. They decided to restart their relationship even though they knew that their past, and now forgotten, relationship had ended in failure. It wasn't fate that brought them together, it was choice.

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Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is one of the worst movies I've seen. The main characters are neurotic anti-heroes who have no reason to be in their disfunctional relationship. The movie is naturalism crossed with surrealism. Spoilers follow: All the characters I can remember are morally depraved, like the medical assistants who smoke pot and dance on the bed where a patient lies undergoing complicated brain surgery, the philandering doctor who has an affair with his assistant, wipes her memory and then tries to have an affair with her again, or the guy who tries to date another girl with a wiped memory by theft and by assuming the identity of her ex-boyfriend. Every one of the several romantic relationships in this movie is portrayed as being miserable, hostile, and riddled with betrayal. The ending of the movie is terrible--the girl says to the guy, essentially, "I'm going to get bored with you and our relationship is going to be as screwed up as before." The guy accepts this as natural and takes her back after she left him and deliberately erased all memory of him. The clear message of this movie is that relationships are inherently disappointing, painful, and unfulfilling, but that somehow love is good anyway and it's great that these two people got together even though they are of no value to each other. Whatever mildly interesting exploration of psychology and memory this movie attempts is drowned in its revolting sense of life. None of this is surprising coming from the screenwriter responsible for the naturalist depravity-wallow Adaptation.

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I agree 100 percent.  This has become one of my recent favorites.

I do not think this movie had anything to do with fate.  Instead, I saw the ending as blow against determinism.  They decided to restart their relationship even though they knew that their past, and now forgotten, relationship had ended in failure.  It wasn't fate that brought them together, it was choice.

Not at all. Jim Carrey didn't really "choose" to meet her at the beach it was something burried in his subconscious that neither he nor the girl could remember. It wasn't a conscious choice at all. There relationship DID end horribly and if you recall, they met at that same beach. So what do you think would happen if they have NO memory of the bad or the good and the meet in exactly the same way? It isn't like their personalities changed at all.

I didn't see that as overwhelmingly positive. I'm agreeing with Amagi's analysis of the movie.

Spiderman 2 was a good movie aestheically. If you ignore the aunt's horribly evil speech about heros sacrificing themselves, the movie was pretty good philisophically too.
Erh...Uncle Ben and Aunt May are Spidey's biggest influences in his life more or less.

Aunt May openly supports altruism and the point is made in the first movie that Uncle Ben died because Spidey got gyped by the bookie and didn't help someone else out after he got screwed over. In other words...the "right" thing to do is turn the other cheek. The point was...Spidey shrugged when he got screwed by the bookie...in his own words "That's not my problem."

The first movie links shrugging with NOT being in your own interest and helping fight for the good EVEN when douchebags like the bookie, Jameson, and other rotters smear you all over the place.

I don't call that philosophical goodness in comparison to The Incredibles.

I really liked that movie. I don't consider a man fighting for the woman he loves--especially as emotionally and suspensefully as they presented it in that movie--to be boring or "tripe."

It is tripe when the woman is a complete dysfunctional wreck and you would definitely be better off without her. It is tripe when you as a character are also a boring weenie who is just a "typical" Joe who really has nothing but that woman who really does nothing to enhance your life and actually takes away from it.

I don't see the fact that Jim Carrey loved that crazy bitch as "suspenseful" or "deep."

As far as the artistic quality of the movie, the way it was filmed was brilliant...I give it that. Some of the sequences like Jim Carrey as a baby were really done extremely well. Props to the director for having his ducks in a row. The script writer should be pimp slapped though.

How does Spiderman 2 praise altruism? For a good portion of the movie he is torn between wanting to help society and wanting to live his own life, so he chooses to live his own life. Later, he decides that he can have both. I see nothing at all wrong with this. Individualism does not rule out helping others.

See above.

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The main characters are neurotic anti-heroes who have no reason to be in their disfunctional relationship.

What are you talking about? anti-heroes? They are great valuers, acting passionately towards life and each other. I don't have any clue what you mean by "anti-heroes" in the context of this movie...where do you even get that from?

The movie is naturalism crossed with surrealism.

Please explain where you got this from, as the movie I saw was essentially about a man trying to save his relationship with the woman he loves. Of course it had conflict, but that doesn't make it "naturalism." And are you equating emotions with surrealism? Because sure, it was emotional (how else would it be interesting?)--but not as some sort of subconscious fate thing. The emotions came from the immense value of the man and woman to each other.

All the characters I can remember are morally depraved, like the medical assistants who smoke pot and dance on the bed where a patient lies undergoing complicated brain surgery, the philandering doctor who has an affair with his assistant, wipes her memory and then tries to have an affair with her again, or the guy who tries to date another girl with a wiped memory by theft and by assuming the identity of her ex-boyfriend. 

If you notice, these depraved people, as you call them, were essentially opposed to the heroes--their depravity (i.e. not doing their jobs properly) was the main cause of problems for the hero (who wanted to save the memories and his relationship, but couldn't because their irrationalities and avoidance of their job cut off his escape).

Every one of the several romantic relationships in this movie is portrayed as being miserable, hostile, and riddled with betrayal. 

Except the one with the main characters in it, which ended in a happy reunion.

The ending of the movie is terrible--the girl says to the guy, essentially, "I'm going to get bored with you and our relationship is going to be as screwed up as before." 

I don't know how closely you followed the movie, but based on previous scenes and the personality of the main female character, the scene you're referring to basically meant that she thought their relationship was worth it--and she wanted to try it. It didn't mean anything like their relationship was damned or that there was no point--quite the opposite.

The clear message of this movie is that relationships are inherently disappointing, painful, and unfulfilling

Except that whole thing about how in the end they get back together, still valuing each other and their relationship.

...revolting sense of life.

It's a revolting sense of life because he struggles to save his memories of the woman he loves, and the movie ends with his triumph and their reunion?

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It is tripe when the woman is a complete dysfunctional wreck and you would definitely be better off without her.

She was unique, independent, strong, attractive, and quite interesting. You make it sound as if she's some sort of loonie, when she has so many great virtues. I don't claim that she's perfect, but that's ridiculous.

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She was unique, independent, strong, attractive, and quite interesting.
Erh...you can be "unique" and still be a crappy human being. As far as being strong goes...she was so "strong" she had her memory of Jim Carrey's character erased so she could evade the reality of what happened :D .

As far as being attractive...compare her to Elastigirl in The Incredibles.

They are great valuers, acting passionately towards life and each other.

Until their relationship falls apart due to the woman's boredom and Jim Carrey's inability to please her. As far as valuing goes, Jim Carrey values her tremendously and he realizes that all to late.

The problem is weak characters trying to evade their crappy reality. Jim Carrey has a relationship that is VERY up at times and at rock botom at other times. VERY unstable relationship which is why it fell apart. The people are fundamentally lost. They don't know what they want or what they need to do to get it until it is too late. Great Gen X-er movie I guess if that is what you are looking for.

the movie I saw was essentially about a man trying to save his relationship with the woman he loves.
He tries...and fails. They break up and both get their memories erased and during the actual erasing process he tries to "hide" inside good memories before they get erased. He also is "helped" by his ex-girlfriend as she talks to him while the memories are erased which is just a figment of his imagination as you can't TALK with someone who doesn't even remember that you exist anymore. This is where you get the surrealism. A lot of impossible things like him getting sucked down the drain of the sink and into another memory happen because a large part of the movie takes place in his mind. Lots of non-reality and non-realistic concepts abound in this movie.

If you notice, these depraved people, as you call them, were essentially opposed to the heroes--their depravity (i.e. not doing their jobs properly) was the main cause of problems for the hero (who wanted to save the memories and his relationship, but couldn't because their irrationalities and avoidance of their job cut off his escape).

Why would he want to save the memories? I understand the old saying "It is better to have loved and lost then to never have loved at all." I also understand that this is what they are going for.

The only problem is that the characters were so caught up in their mediocre and non-fulfilling jobs/lives that their relationship crumbled due to the fact that they don't really know what they need in their lives or how to get it.

Except the one with the main characters in it, which ended in a happy reunion.
It was only happy because the main characters were incable of remembering how crappy their relationship was and why exactly they broke up. The happy reunion was based on a total denial of reality. BTW...the "happy reunion" you speak of wasn't really happy OR a reunion.

Jim Carrey feels an inexplicable urge to go to the beach and he meets the girl again and neither of them know who the other one is...so they can't really be "happy" about seeing each other again. It also isn't a reunion because at that time they are once again "abula rasa.

I don't know how closely you followed the movie, but based on previous scenes and the personality of the main female character, the scene you're referring to basically meant that she thought their relationship was worth it--and she wanted to try it. It didn't mean anything like their relationship was damned or that there was no point--quite the opposite.

Not at all.

The point was that there were good times and bad. When you get rid of ALL of your memories having to do with a bad relationship, you get rid of the good times as well. A sort of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".

Apparently the good times were "good enough" to go through with a relationship that they knew would eventually fall apart again at the end. She says as much.

NOTHING fundamentally changed about either of their characters that would lead to a different outcome. NOTHING. The only way the outcome could possible be different is if Jim Carrey or the girl retained SOME memory of what caused their break up in the first place.

If you put 2 and 2 together, you will ALWAYS get four. The only way the outcome becomes different is if your variables in the equation change or get something extra added on, subtracted, multiplied, or divided out.

So yeah...their relationship was indeed damned to failure for the second time.

It's a revolting sense of life because he struggles to save his memories of the woman he loves, and the movie ends with his triumph and their reunion?

A triumph of metaphysical evasion that results in a struggle to save memories that ends up in failure. He DOESN'T remember and they reunite to have the same stuff happen all over again.

Not really a triumph in my book.

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