Nicky Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Dragonlady, are you related to Ayn Rand? You look ... like her. Dragonlady, while it may be in people's best interests to pay for these services, things won't necessarily go that way. Do you know of any times in history where there was an absolutely free society and it went well? Hasn't there been planned societies that have worked out (at least semi-planned)? What's an example of a planned society that went well? What's an example of a free society that didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiral Architect Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Dragonlady, are you related to Ayn Rand? You look ... like her. Dragonlady, while it may be in people's best interests to pay for these services, things won't necessarily go that way. Do you know of any times in history where there was an absolutely free society and it went well? Hasn't there been planned societies that have worked out (at least semi-planned)? Well then the leaders can jolly well act like a leader and try to motivate the people to get involved in their community. By definition, forcing people to do it against their will is the exact opposite of good leadership and a free country. Force is not practical and morality ends where the barrel of a gun begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Me Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 SpiralArchitect, you are still staying in America, voluntarily. You have the option to leave if you want. While you are here and are partaking of the services, I don't see how it is the proper thing to say that America is not "supposed" to tax you. They are not saying you can't leave, but you will be using the services which are already in place, and I don't see how it is proper to NOT contribute. Anyway, alright, done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Me Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Nicky, I don't know at the moment, but I have heard that there are semi-socialist countries doing well, in fact very well, in modern day society. I am not sure if this was one which I found or not but isn't Sweden semi-socialist and doing very well? Edited July 13, 2012 by 123Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 SpiralArchitect, you are still staying in America, voluntarily. You have the option to leave if you want. While you are here and are partaking of the services, I don't see how it is the proper thing to say that America is not "supposed" to tax you. Equivocation on the word "America". First you use it to mean "the geographical area between the borders, second to mean "the US government". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Nicky, I don't know at the moment, but I have heard that there are semi-socialist countries doing well, in fact very well, in modern day society. I am not sure if this was one which I found or not but isn't Sweden semi-socialist and doing very well? Depends on your standards. If self-sacrifice and 'other-sacrifice' are proper to men, then yes, Denmark and Sweden are "doing well". For now. Altruist premises there are so deeply ingrained, that servitude to the State, or entitlement to its cradle-to-grave support, is assumed as a given. Obedience is the hall-mark of collectivism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Nicky, I don't know at the moment, but I have heard that there are semi-socialist countries doing well, in fact very well, in modern day society. I am not sure if this was one which I found or not but isn't Sweden semi-socialist and doing very well? Sweden is semi-planned, much like the US. You initially stated that there have been planned societies which did well, and free societies which failed. That's what I asked examples on, not semi-socialist countries which are doing well due to their private sector being allowed to operate in relative freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Me Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Nicky, Miscommunication. I didn't say that there were socialist societies that have worked well... I was asking. This is what I said (asked) specifically: "Hasn't there been planned societies that have worked out (at least semi-planned)?" I am not sure how much more I can really get out of this forum anyway... I think it seems like what has been said so far is all that is going to be said. Unless anyone has anything new to add? As far as I am concerned unless someone provides me with answers, I think to come to something solid in regards to my original question(s) I need to do more research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Nicky, Miscommunication. I didn't say that there were socialist societies that have worked well... I was asking. This is what I said (asked) specifically: "Hasn't there been planned societies that have worked out (at least semi-planned)?" Let's say I walk up to a person, and ask them "Haven't you stolen that car you're driving?". Wouldn't you say that's both a statement and a question? Wouldn't you say that what I'm really trying to communicate is more "I think you stole this car. True or false?". How about these last two questions I just asked you, wouldn't you say they're also loaded questions? In fact, all four questions I just asked also communicate a belief I hold. So does your question. I don't think it's any misunderstanding, I think that you have some kind of an opinion on the matter, and your questions speak to what that opinion is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Me Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Let's say I walk up to a person, and ask them "Haven't you stolen that car you're driving?". Wouldn't you say that's both a statement and a question? Wouldn't you say that what I'm really trying to communicate is more "I think you stole this car. True or false?". How about these last two questions I just asked you, wouldn't you say they're also loaded questions? In fact, all four questions I just asked also communicate a belief I hold. So does your question. I don't think it's any misunderstanding, I think that you have some kind of an opinion on the matter, and your questions speak to what that opinion is. Nicky, it was not a statement. This is offtopic, and this conversation about it is over. Edited July 18, 2012 by 123Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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