Reason_Being Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Is it possible for altruism to be forced, or is "forced altruism" contradictory? Altruism is a form of self-sacrifice. If someone is forcing you to give up your life or property for someone else (example: government-enforced social programs), you are being sacrificed but it's not a self-sacrifice since you have no control over the matter. Must altruism be a conscious decision to live one's life for another? Is it correct to describe the society in a welfare state as an "altruistic" society if the welfare system is based on forced sacrifice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairnet Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 No. That is one of the many points of Atlas Shrugged. Altruism requires your sanction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussK Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Is it possible for altruism to be forced, or is "forced altruism" contradictory? Altruism is a form of self-sacrifice. If someone is forcing you to give up your life or property for someone else (example: government-enforced social programs), you are being sacrificed but it's not a self-sacrifice since you have no control over the matter. Must altruism be a conscious decision to live one's life for another? Is it correct to describe the society in a welfare state as an "altruistic" society if the welfare system is based on forced sacrifice? Altruism, if it is the dominant theory of ethics in a society, generally leads to individuals being sacrificed by and to that society. A main principle behind the welfare state is that an individual has no right to exist for his own sake, and he must sacrifice himself to others; so there is nothing wrong with identifying a society that installs a welfare state as an altruistic society. In fact, this is stated in many of Ayn Rand's works, and those of other Objectivist intellectuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonid Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Statism is a form of forced altruism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reason_Being Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Statism is a form of forced altruism. Explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonid Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Explain? Statism is based on the altruistic notion that man exists not for himself but for the sake of others, But because man is inherently "evil", an egoist which doesn't want to share his values with others voluntarily, the state must to step in and to force him to do so by means of taxation and many different forms of regulations which have one single goal-to submit man's mind to the will of society. Since society doesn't exist as an entity, government represents it. So in the name of altruism the state could and would commit any atrocity as long as it's "for the people". Edited July 11, 2012 by Leonid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reason_Being Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Statism is based on the altruistic notion that man exists not for himself but for the sake of others, But because man is inherently "evil", an egoist which doesn't want to share his values with others voluntarily, the state must to step in and to force him to do so by means of taxation and many different forms of regulations which have one single goal-to submit man's mind to the will of society. Since society doesn't exist as an entity, government represents it. So in the name of altruism the state could and would commit any atrocity as long as it's "for the people". This explanation doesn't fully address my concern. If altruism is a form of self-sacrifice, how can it be altruism if society is forcing you to sacrifice yourself? I guess you could say that if society (represented by the government in a democratic state) enforces laws that require one to be sacrificed for someone else, that would mean that members of society who support the government are voluntarily submitting themselves to laws that require them to sacrifice, and this perhaps would be altruism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonid Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 The notion of altruism is that man has to exist for others. It doesn't say that he has to do it voluntary. In the society based on altruist morality selfishness is immoral and often criminal. So if you don't want to pay taxes or obey any other sacrificial laws and regulations you will be forced to do so or be punished or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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