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Fighting a girl

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 thenelli01
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You should be able to give an answer with just the information provided.

Should I? Let's put it this way: would a court of law pass judgment and sentence someone for a crime like this, based only on the information you provided? I don't think so. So what makes you think my idea of justice is any less deliberate and considered than theirs?

Why would I have lower standards than the norm?

Random woman stabs you on the street, steals your wallet, leaves you to die. Is then aquitted due to incompetance and a cover up by the police. What does one have the moral right to do? Does he have the moral right to go to her house and stab her?

Still not enough information. I have the moral right to judge her and punish her. My judgment and punishment would depend on the details of who she is and why she acted the way she did.

I am just curious what you mean by "taking justice in your own hands."

I think you speak English well enough to know what taking something in your own hands means, and I can't explain what justice is in an example. Not even a really good one, which your hypothetical isn't.

If the concept of justice was explained by one example, half the colleges in the world could be closed down immediately.

Edited by Nicky
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This is all dependent on context. In a lot of situations, you really can't know whether the person is going to hit you again or not, and it's better to err on the side of safety

Meh. In most situations, my idea of erring on the side of caution would be to not hit the girl.

Edited by Nicky
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Should I? Let's put it this way: would a court of law pass judgment and sentence someone for a crime like this, based only on the information you provided? I don't think so. So what makes you think my idea of justice is any less deliberate and considered than theirs?

Why would I have lower standards than the norm?

If you ask one what sentence should be given for a man that shot another random man with the intent to kill him unprovoked, most rational people will say the death penalty, life sentence, or whatever punishment they think is appropriate given the facts. Why can they answer this question? Because it is a hypothetical and has no consequences. It is irrational to compare answering a hypothetical to a court sentencing someone for a crime, which does have real consequences.

I think you speak English well enough to know what taking something in your own hands means, and I can't explain what justice is in an example. Not even a really good one, which your hypothetical isn't.

If the concept of justice was explained by one example, half the colleges in the world could be closed down immediately.

I am not asking you for an explaination of the concept of justice. I was curious as to what you thought would be an appropriate response to a crime when the system has failed and what you would consider to be moral punishmentl. Obviously context matters, but given the (few) facts, you said that you do have the moral right to punish her. Would it ever be moral to go to her house and stab her? I am not asking for a "what is the exact moral thing to do", I am asking, "where is the limit?" But if you don't want to answer the question, fine.

Edited by Matt Giannelli
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Meh. In most situations, my idea of erring on the side of caution would be to not hit the girl.

If a girl has slapped you, yes, she probably doesn't plan on hitting you again but in nearly all other situations erring on the side of caution would be to defend yourself. If a man wants to hurt you enough to the extent that he has hit you (and especially if he approached you and immediately hit you), then he probably won't be satisfied with a single punch (assuming he's an average person and can't KO you in one hit, and even if he could, it would make it a moot issue since then you wouldn't have any options). Also, most men would expect retaliation and the only way to prevent that would be to hit you at least a couple more times.
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If you ask one what sentence should be given for a man that shot another random man with the intent to kill him unprovoked, most rational people will say the death penalty, life sentence, or whatever punishment they think is appropriate given the facts. Why can they answer this question? Because it is a hypothetical and has no consequences. It is irrational to compare answering a hypothetical to a court sentencing someone for a crime, which does have real consequences.

I am not asking you for an explaination of the concept of justice. I was curious as to what you thought would be an appropriate response to a crime when the system has failed and what you would consider to be moral punishmentl. Obviously context matters, but given the (few) facts, you said that you do have the moral right to punish her. Would it ever be moral to go to her house and stab her? I am not asking for a "what is the exact moral thing to do", I am asking, "where is the limit?" But if you don't want to answer the question, fine.

It depends on the context. If someone has raped or killed a man's loved one and gotten away with it despite a pretty objective court system and laws, I would say that it would be justified for that man to murder the rapist/murderer and when he is charged with murder, the judge should be lenient. If someone has merely stabbed you and gotten away with it, you should take percautions to defend yourself against any future attacks but otherwise put the attacker out of your mind.
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Most people get abusive because they can't control their emotions. By hitting someone who's hit you, you show exactly the same lack of control. I can't see why any rational man wouldn't be able to use his brain, even in a heated situation, and just leave the room. What value could you possibly gain from staying, and punching a girl who's slapped you?

If a girl has slapped you, yes, she probably doesn't plan on hitting you again but in nearly all other situations erring on the side of caution would be to defend yourself.

There's a fine line between defending yourself against a woman (ie: restraining her until she cools off) and fighting her (ie: punching her).

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If you ask one what sentence should be given for a man that shot another random man with the intent to kill him unprovoked, most rational people will say the death penalty, life sentence, or whatever punishment they think is appropriate given the facts. Why can they answer this question? Because it is a hypothetical and has no consequences. It is irrational to compare answering a hypothetical to a court sentencing someone for a crime, which does have real consequences.

A hypothetical is a comparison to a real situation. If you're not asking me what I would do in a real situation, then what are you asking me? What I would do in a video game? In a video game I would shoot all the bystanders and take on the cops with a machine gun.

But in a real situation, I would need more facts before deciding what I would do.

I am not asking you for an explaination of the concept of justice. I was curious as to what you thought would be an appropriate response to a crime when the system has failed and what you would consider to be moral punishmentl. Obviously context matters, but given the (few) facts, you said that you do have the moral right to punish her. Would it ever be moral to go to her house and stab her? I am not asking for a "what is the exact moral thing to do", I am asking, "where is the limit?" But if you don't want to answer the question, fine.

You haven't been asking where the limit is, you have been asking what the response would be to your hypothetical situation. Telling you where the limit is is very easy: the lower limit is a stern talking to, and the upper limit is a quick death.

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Most people get abusive because they can't control their emotions. By hitting someone who's hit you, you show exactly the same lack of control. I can't see why any rational man wouldn't be able to use his brain, even in a heated situation, and just leave the room. What value could you possibly gain from staying, and punching a girl who's slapped you?

That's a loaded question that already assumes you know she's not willing to do it again and that you have ample time to just walk out of the room at any time.

Also, I don't see how you could imply striking someone in retaliation to an initial attack on your physical person is the same as someone initiating that attack.

There's a fine line between defending yourself against a woman (ie: restraining her until she cools off) and fighting her (ie: punching her).

I don't understand your differentiation. I'm defending myself by punching her.

It may be more gentlemanly to go out of your way to restrain a woman instead of hitting her, but the reality of the situation is that that's not always a safe choice. I don't know what kind of women you're used to being around, but there are some really nasty ones out there, with a proclivity for physical engagements, who would gladly attempt to incur further harm upon you for going out of your way to be a gentleman.

Edited by Gramlich
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That's a loaded question that already assumes you know she's not willing to do it again and that you have ample time to just walk out of the room at any time.

I was thinking specially of cases where the girl is someone you know/someone you've been dating. (Maybe she blew up because she caught you cheating, or hitting on someone else, etc.) In these cases I would say punching her is definitely not the way to handle the situation.

And if the girl isn't someone you know, well.. realistically, how often do random girls attack guys they don't know (with their bare hands)?

I don't know what kind of women you're used to being around, but there are some really nasty ones out there, with a proclivity for physical engagements, who would gladly attempt to incur further harm upon you for going out of your way to be a gentleman.

Not those types. :thumbsup:

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I was thinking specially of cases where the girl is someone you know/someone you've been dating. (Maybe she blew up because she caught you cheating, or hitting on someone else, etc.) In these cases I would say punching her is definitely not the way to handle the situation.

Oh, no. I agree. I was approaching the topic very broadly.

And if the girl isn't someone you know, well.. realistically, how often do random girls attack guys they don't know (with their bare hands)?

Well, realistically, how often are you physically attacked at all?

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  • 2 years later...

I don't think there's any question that a woman hitting a man should morally be treated the same as a man hitting a woman. Society's opinion doesn't enter into it. It also used to be socially acceptable to treat blacks as inferior, and I don't think it's unfair at all to say that double standards on violence between men and women fall into the same category.

 

The only moral issues that seem to be relevant here, are the issue of retaliation, and how it should be handled with regard to differences in physical strength.

 

I would agree that personally retaliating against someone is immoral if the police are willing to intervene on your side. In the case of a woman hitting a man, it is likely that the police will simply ignore the situation because of the double standard. However, I also think that retaliating would also be against your self-interest, because you're likely to end up in jail.

 

Of course if someone is an ongoing threat to you, then you should retaliate.

 

Assuming that someone weaker than you attacks you, I would agree that the moral thing to do would be to restrain them, and retaliate if the attack happens again. Ideally, what I'd do if a woman attacks you is pin her down and tell her that if she tries that again you'll knock her to the ground. The relevant question then is whether or not you'll be able to defend yourself in court if you follow through.

 

I would also ask that whoever you're with or whoever owns the premises that this is happening on throw her out. If they fail to do so, then you should leave, because they're acting on a double standard and in the process implicitly condoning violence against you, because you're enabling that behavior by continuing to associate with them, and because you're placing your physical safety in danger by sticking around.

Edited by Eamon Arasbard
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Assuming that someone weaker than you attacks you, I would agree that the moral thing to do would be to restrain them, and retaliate if the attack happens again. Ideally, what I'd do if a woman attacks you is pin her down and tell her that if she tries that again you'll knock her to the ground. The relevant question then is whether or not you'll be able to defend yourself in court if you follow through.

...wouldn't it be better to say that you're done with the relationship? You make it sound like you're talking about a relationship, not some sort of bar fight or incident with a random girl on the street.

Edited by Eiuol
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