The bad guy won. The fight continues.

[Atlas-]

Yes.

I will always vote for the lesser evil and never for the greater evil. I will never make the best the enemy of the better.

I don't know what you're saying yes to nor what the 'best enemy of the better' means. But I'm not saying vote for the greater evil, I'm saying don't vote for evil at all.

Because there is no candidate who completely represents my views. There are only candidates who either are closer to my views, or are farther away.

By your own admission both are very far from your views. Why give to support to someone who you believe is the antithesis of America.

That only helps the candidate farther away from my views to win. That not only makes the best the enemy of the better, it makes the best the ally of the worst.

Yet again I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'the best the ally worst' but I presume your talking about abstaining letting the other person win. But that's not always true. I'm sure there are people similar to you who voted for Obama instead. My point is that there are people who share very similar beliefs that have gone both ways. If all those people had instead abstained or voted for someone more closely linked to there ideals they would have a greater impact.

That's where we each differ. In an evil world, the lesser evil is always better than the greater evil. My own personal responsibility is to keep the evil outside of my own life so that I don't become collatoral damage.

But your choices aren't Greater evil or slightly lesser evil. It's greater evil, slightly lesser evil or no evil.

That all depends on the kind of freedom each of us is seeking. Most people are seeking the freedom to do what is morally wrong when they have always possessed the freedom to do what is morally right.

I am referring to your 'true Americans' I presume your not saying that Americans seek permission to do morally wrong acts so I don't know what you're talking about.

Third party voting and abstained voting is what elected Obama, and he counted on your help to win.

Abstaining didn't win Obama the election, people voting for Obama did.

Everyone is already getting exactly the government they deserve simply by how they are living their own lives, so if you feel that you are not getting the government you deserve, all you need to do is first to change how you are living so that you will deserve a better government.

This is based on flawed logic. You are saying that everyone gets the Government they deserve. This isn't true in the slightest. for a start at least 49% of Americans didn't get the Government they wanted. Government works off the majority, and the candidates. Just because some candidates I don't agree with got voted in by a lot of people I don't agree with doesn't mean it's a government I agree with or deserve.

[moralist]

I don't know what you're saying yes to nor what the 'best enemy of the better' means.

Ok, I'll explain...

You said:

Rather than voting to keep the "evil" Obama out of office by electing by your own admission the slightly less evil Romney.

And I responded:

Yes.

I will always vote for the lesser evil and never for the greater evil. I will never make the best the enemy of the better.

Then you respond:

But I'm not saying vote for the greater evil, I'm saying don't vote for evil at all.

Not voting is a vote for the greater evil because it is one less vote against the greater evil by not being one vote more for the lesser evil.

Also, for clarification, "slightly less evil" is your own assessment of Romney. It is not mine. My opinion is that Romney would have made a much better President than Obama.

By your own admission both are very far from your views.

Again, that is your own assessment and not mine. I did not say that. I only said that neither completely represents my views. Liberals love conservative ideological purists who become their allies by either abstention or voting third party. Victory is always assured when the opposition is fractured.

Why give to support to someone who you believe is the antithesis of America.

Again, regarding Romney as the "antithesis of America" is your own opinion of him, and not mine. And I can add that is also Obama's opinion of Romney which he shares with you.

For us to even be able to discuss this issue, it's necessary for you to first refrain from misrepresenting what I had actually said. Otherwise time is wasted undoing your fabrications.

Yet again I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'the best the ally worst' but I presume your talking about abstaining letting the other person win.

That's a very old saying that did not originate with me. Yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Withholding my vote from the lesser evil who has the best chance of winning most definitely helps the greater evil candidate to win.

But that's not always true. I'm sure there are people similar to you who voted for Obama instead.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. No one similar to me would ever vote for Obama.

moralist said:

That all depends on the kind of freedom each of us is seeking. Most people are seeking the freedom to do what is morally wrong when they have always possessed the freedom to do what is morally right.

to which you responded:

I am referring to your 'true Americans' I presume your not saying that Americans seek permission to do morally wrong acts

That's right. The people who do that aren't Americans.

so I don't know what you're talking about.

I said exactly what I meant. The people who seek the freedom to do what is morally wrong need to petition the government to grant its approval. This makes them slaves of the government. The moment anyone seeks the freedom to do what's morally wrong, they have already forfeited their freedom.

Truth is, everyone has the freedom to do what's morally right... until they seek the freedom to do what's morally wrong.

You are saying that everyone gets the Government they deserve.

Yes.

And I'll explain exactly what I mean by that. Everyone's personal experience of government is different, and is dependent upon how they are living their lives. For example, even though the same government is in power for both, a murderer's experience of government is vastly different from a decent law abiding American.

To make the point even more clear. Your experience of government and mine are different to the extent that we each live by different moral values. I can say with certainty that my own personal experience of government is exactly what I deserve... because of how I live my life.

This isn't true in the slightest. for a start at least 49% of Americans didn't get the Government they wanted.

You're exactly right. They did not get the government they wanted... they got the government they deserved. Because people have created the government in their own image.

Edited December 31, 2012 by moralist